Want the Hulk to fight Doomsday? Think Batman can take Spider Man? Maybe you think Juggernaut should have beaten Thor. Place your bets, and opinions in this thread. I'll start with... Colossus vs. The Thing I'm going to go with The Thing on this, even though I like Colossus better. It seems to me that The Thing is more of a natural brawler, and has greater experience in combat. Also, our stats for him here at Classic Marvel, show that his mental faculties are +1CS highter than Mr. Rasputins and I think that would give him an edge in a tactical situation. https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,62822#msg-62822 Tue, 14 May 2024 03:11:07 -0600 Phorum 5.2.22 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,66256#msg-66256 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,66256#msg-66256 DorkLord General Discussion Mon, 10 Mar 2014 09:48:25 -0600 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,66251#msg-66251 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,66251#msg-66251 MajorSteel General Discussion Mon, 10 Mar 2014 09:37:54 -0600 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,66242#msg-66242 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,66242#msg-66242 DorkLord General Discussion Mon, 10 Mar 2014 01:03:50 -0600 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,66238#msg-66238 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,66238#msg-66238
Black Widow vs Batman.

Avenger's movie Black Widow vs Christian Bale Batman. I'd love to watch the battle. In an impromptu battle, I believe Black Widow would take him. In the 2nd battle and beyond Batman has her in the the martial arts.]]> BelleReeve General Discussion Mon, 10 Mar 2014 00:41:23 -0600 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,65668#msg-65668 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,65668#msg-65668
But now I'm curious on another match. Kingpin vs. Lex Luthor.

I know - Luthor is the single-most intelligent individual in the DC universe, and he feels that nobody - Brainiac included - is his intellectual equal. But Luthor only has strength when he has his weapons; Kingpin is at the peak of normal human physical strength.

Who wins that one?]]> Scarecrow71 General Discussion Tue, 18 Feb 2014 10:45:07 -0700 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,65141#msg-65141 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,65141#msg-65141 MajorSteel General Discussion Thu, 23 Jan 2014 23:07:55 -0700 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,65140#msg-65140 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,65140#msg-65140 Thrudjelmer General Discussion Thu, 23 Jan 2014 23:01:41 -0700 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,65135#msg-65135 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,65135#msg-65135
Here's a more even match up since Batman has taken on various crime cartels.

Batman vs Kingpin!]]> Outcast General Discussion Thu, 23 Jan 2014 22:44:58 -0700 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,65038#msg-65038 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,65038#msg-65038 -------------------------------------------------------
> So, while Doom SHOULD win over Batman, he should
> ALSO beat the FF for the same reasons but doesn't.
> Doom will have his victories, and there will never
> be an "...and Batman leads Doom off to Arkham in
> cuffs" ending, but Batman will come out on top in
> the end.


I see what you're saying Bro. Certain comic book rules have to be followed in order for the stories to work it seem, something I'll try to take into account when commenting on future match-ups.

I can just imagine Doom in arkham, fully armored while wearing a straight jacket, yelling his head off about how Batman's gonna pay a terrible price:D.
No it won't happen but it's good to have at least one funny image in my mind to call upon in these troubled times.]]> Outcast General Discussion Sun, 19 Jan 2014 16:24:51 -0700 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64985#msg-64985 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64985#msg-64985
It's often exhausting or draining in some fashion. If you use it right off the bat and it fails for some reason (you didn't know the target could teleport, phase, dodge, etc the attack) you're now at a serious disadvantage. You've tired yourself, you may not be able to do the attack again without rest (or it becomes life-threatening to use again), and your opponent is still fresh as he was before the attack.

Hero fights in particular they aren't going for the kill and those 'ultimate attacks' are generally lethal, they aren't going to use them unless they've fought to the point they don't have a choice or know their opponent can handle it. If there opponent can handle it then generally it's not going to one-shot them anyway so they'll save it for when they've tired their opponent.

There characters in these matches generally aren't familiar with one another, they aren't going to go for the heavy strikes until they've felt out their opponent. It would prove really stupid to truck out your ultimate attack from the start only to find out he can absorb that attack, power up from it, and turn it on you but you could have learned that earlier if you'd just waited and fought more cautiously. Only the arrogant sorts use the higher end attacks, those overly confident in the effectiveness of their attacks, or just the stone cold killers who always go full tilt until they can't.

For some examples, look at Dragonball. Yes while sometimes some characters (particularly Saiyans) have a character defect about dragging fights out just because they're enjoying it most of the time they've only got limited energy reserves and have to feel out their opponent(s) first. This is why Goku doesn't just go to whatever level of Super-Saiyan he has available as soon as he comes up against an opponent. Sure it super-charges him but it also drains him and better to be safe than sorry, plus again often he's not interested in killing an opponent just shaming them into giving up.

Voltron often had the 'well they should just lead with Blazing Sword from the start!' from fans, then they had an episode where they did just that and got curb-stomped. Their opponent was fresh and the weapon just wasn't effective, the individual lions attacking first was a crucial step in making the monster of the week vulnerable to the sword attack.

So while it may seem like 'well he does X and it's all over' makes sense generally it doesn't. Heck even Galactus follows these rules, using the least amount of energy possible due to his Hunger and only escalating as he has to (which is why he often just leaves the fight eventually, when he could have done an instant-kill attack that used less overall energy than trying to be cheap about it cost him).]]> Nightmask General Discussion Fri, 17 Jan 2014 11:35:47 -0700 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64983#msg-64983 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64983#msg-64983 -------------------------------------------------------
> Brother you've set yourself up for this one!
>
> Batman vs Dr Doom!

That's easy. Doom has the far superior intellect, equal resources(while he has his own country, it is still a small country who's most valuable export is Doom) and resourcefulness, equal or greater willpower, greater technology, and access to a body of knowledge that batman can't understand, i.e. magic. He's stolen the power of the Silver Surfer and the Beyonder.



So the winner is, obviously, Batman.

Now, just hear me out...

...if you scroll down to the battle report on this, you'll see the standard expected outcome...which I used to agree with until you asked this question and I REALLY thought about it. Doom wouldn't figure out who Batman is. He wouldn't feel the need to, because he's Doom and- since all men are inferior to Doom ("ESPECIALLY that fool Richards!!")- whomever deigns to dress as a bat in an attempt to strike fear into Doom is obviously a madman of feeble intelligence, unworthy of Doom's attention or pity.

Because Doom's arrogance is his fatal flaw, he'd underestimate Batman at a critical moment...putting him in a deathtrap instead of showing him mercy by killing him and ending his madness. Batman invented escaping from deathtraps (Mister Miracle elevated it to an art form). And then it's basically just a matter of pissing off every single Doom-loving Bat-hater on the face of the earth by writing Batman consistently: he's outmanuvered Lex Luthor, who has a far superior intellect, he's stalemated Ra's al Ghul, who has far greater resources than either wayne or batman; he is as unwavering from his mission as Doom was in freeing his mother; he has a network of allies to consult about whatever tech or magic he doesn't understand (1)Doing what's neccessary, up to and including working with other people...to a point...is part of his character, so arguing that bringing in outside help isn't allowable is just ignoring an aspect of the character, 2) even if it wasn't allowable, Batman -when neccessary- cheats, so that condition is still irrelevent). And he may not have stolen a god's power, but he did fatally injury Darkseid once...so he's got that going on for himself, which is nice.

So, while Doom SHOULD win over Batman, he should ALSO beat the FF for the same reasons but doesn't. Doom will have his victories, and there will never be an "...and Batman leads Doom off to Arkham in cuffs" ending, but Batman will come out on top in the end.]]> Brotherless_one General Discussion Fri, 17 Jan 2014 07:16:25 -0700 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64978#msg-64978 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64978#msg-64978 he the man, who will crush the bat into powder!!
Respect or fear, it doesn't matter
your obedience will be had!!]]> MajorSteel General Discussion Thu, 16 Jan 2014 21:19:13 -0700 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64967#msg-64967 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64967#msg-64967
Batman vs Dr Doom!]]> Outcast General Discussion Thu, 16 Jan 2014 19:01:22 -0700 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64882#msg-64882 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64882#msg-64882
]]> Brotherless_one General Discussion Tue, 14 Jan 2014 12:05:01 -0700 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64867#msg-64867 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64867#msg-64867 -------------------------------------------------------
> Who is the master of time and space?*
>
> Zack Morris
> [geeksonparade.files.wordpress.com]
> ime-out.jpg
>
> VS
>
> Hiro Nakamura
> [foreignerinformosa.typepad.com]
> r_in_formosa/images/2007/09/19/hiro_nakamura.jpg
>
> *Sho Nuff is not the correct answer.

Wait a minute, it was Skreech who could actually freeze time AND manipulate things during the time-out periods. Zack's was just general 'freeze frame' for comedic 4th wall breaking commentary that had no in-show influence (similar to Spider-man's stuff in the last animation for him with the Teen Brigade).]]> Nightmask General Discussion Tue, 14 Jan 2014 04:54:22 -0700 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64853#msg-64853 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64853#msg-64853
Zack Morris


VS

Hiro Nakamura


*Sho Nuff is not the correct answer.]]> Brotherless_one General Discussion Mon, 13 Jan 2014 23:36:37 -0700 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64506#msg-64506 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64506#msg-64506 MajorSteel General Discussion Fri, 03 Jan 2014 14:31:47 -0700 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64486#msg-64486 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64486#msg-64486 ]]> Brotherless_one General Discussion Thu, 02 Jan 2014 21:11:24 -0700 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64485#msg-64485 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64485#msg-64485 Thrudjelmer General Discussion Thu, 02 Jan 2014 18:08:00 -0700 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64476#msg-64476 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64476#msg-64476
Victor Von Doom vs. Mister Sinister

Not that they'd ever really duke it out with one another, but what if they did?]]> Scarecrow71 General Discussion Thu, 02 Jan 2014 12:33:57 -0700 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64467#msg-64467 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64467#msg-64467 -------------------------------------------------------
> What i also found interesting (ane hypocritical)
> is that in the dc realm superman is hurt by the
> power sword and it takes him down yet in almost
> every superman/thor mash up Mjolnir's magical
> nature is almost always dismissed?
>
> I call shenanigans.. if the power sword can hurt
> superman than so can Mjolnir which can be argued
> is just as powerful as the power sword in its own
> way...

Yes, they clearly ignore the magical nature of Mjolnir to give the win to Superman (and for the Avengers/JLA crossover basically added a special exception just so Superman could use the hammer briefly during the fight that has never been seen prior to that or since). Doesn't surprise me though, DC includes as part of their restrictions regarding crossing over Marvel and DC that Superman can't be shown losing to someone like Thor (it takes nearly a half-dozen heavy hitters to take Superman down and they have to gang up on him during the crossover to show that he can't be beaten by any single Marvel hero), same with never showing Captain America defeat Batman, the most they do is have it that Batman concedes (with of course a qualifier) that MAYBE Cap would beat him after a long, drawn-out fight.

I imagine since things with He-Man aren't so contentious they're more willing to allow the win to another company's hero like they won't allow to Marvel.]]> Nightmask General Discussion Thu, 02 Jan 2014 08:22:12 -0700 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64463#msg-64463 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64463#msg-64463
I call shenanigans.. if the power sword can hurt superman than so can Mjolnir which can be argued is just as powerful as the power sword in its own way...]]> Chronomancer General Discussion Thu, 02 Jan 2014 08:08:16 -0700 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64460#msg-64460 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64460#msg-64460
Except that its nothing it all like that...it's more of "if xena was a demi-goddess...."]]> Brotherless_one General Discussion Thu, 02 Jan 2014 04:30:47 -0700 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64453#msg-64453 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64453#msg-64453 Thrudjelmer General Discussion Wed, 01 Jan 2014 23:20:38 -0700 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64450#msg-64450 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64450#msg-64450 She-ra is the female counterpart of He man, they draw thier power from the same place.

Wouldnt that mean She-ra beats Diana?l]]> Chronomancer General Discussion Wed, 01 Jan 2014 20:52:34 -0700 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64446#msg-64446 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64446#msg-64446
I vaguely remember He-Man vs Superman ba--

...ok, I guess there was a rematch recently, but what I was going to say is he-man's main advantage was superman's vulnerability to magic. Wonder Woman doesn't share that vulnerability. Her lasso and bracelets trump She-Ra's sword (defense) and -even if she doesn't start with one- her sword skill is at least equal to She-ra's. There's also the chakram-esque tiarra, giving diana a nice mid-range attack. and THEN you take into account her speed & flight gifts from hermes and her animal empathy/control gift from diana/artemis/whichever name DC's using that day (completely resolving that whole she-ra's mount issue), coupled with the "she prefers not to fight...but when she doesn't have a choice, she refuses to lose" mentality...

...Diana could take He-Man & She-ra is no He-Man.

edit he-man vs superman (new 52):


]]> Brotherless_one General Discussion Wed, 01 Jan 2014 17:23:26 -0700 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64437#msg-64437 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64437#msg-64437 -------------------------------------------------------
> Here's a question from my 7 year old daughter
>
> Who would win a fight between She-Ra and Wonder Woman? I told her id ask around and get a general consensus for her


I win by making it a Pay-Per-View Jello Fight :P

Honestly, though, this is a pretty close matchup IMO. She-Ra's transformable sword gives her a certain edge in versatility, but it's certainly not a definitive edge against Diana by any means. And while Diana's displayed more of the classic warrior's hard mental and emotional edge when needed, she wouldn't bring it out quick enough that She-Ra wouldn't recognize the power and skill of her foe and step up her game in response. While the cartoon did dial things down for kid-friendly viewing, She-Ra has a lot of experience battling vicious slavers and conquerors, so I think she can match Diana's warrior mentality if it's called for.

If Diana can keep She-Ra grounded and away from her mount, then Diana gets a tactical edge in higher ground and can truly start dictating the terms of the fight. And Diana's speed and maneuverability may just enable her to do that. So while I think it would be extremely close and very drawn out, I think Diana eventually claims the victory, even if you figure She-Ra to be physically stronger.]]> Redman II General Discussion Tue, 31 Dec 2013 20:13:44 -0700 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64427#msg-64427 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64427#msg-64427
Who would win a fight between She-Ra and Wonder Woman? I told her id ask around and get a general consensus for her]]> Chronomancer General Discussion Tue, 31 Dec 2013 16:22:36 -0700 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64415#msg-64415 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64415#msg-64415 -------------------------------------------------------
> airedale Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think Thor would beat Gladiator or the
> Surfer.
>
>
> And your reasoning for this would be....?
>
> Thor is great and all, but without that hammer
> he's not much more than really strong mortal.
> Surfer, on the other hand, has Power Cosmic all
> the time. And from what I know of Power Cosmic,
> that pretty much grants him the ability to create
> Black Holes on command.

Thor has more than that going for him, he's way more than 'just a strong mortal'. He's the son of an elder god after all, he's just somewhat lacking in opportunities to exploit that potential. His hammer is actually a crutch, while it aids him it also means he doesn't work on exploiting his full potential (and the writers don't want to generally power him up directly since he's already so powerful).

> "Excuse me, Silver Surfer, but my Hammer is coming
> down upon thee!"
>
> "I think not. Enjoy the excessive gravitational
> pull from the black hole that just opened up
> DIRECTLY ON YOU."
>
> No contest here. Anyone with Power Cosmic should
> always and without question defeat someone without
> it.

Not really, all wielders of it are not created equal, some are far more inferior than others and/or lack the skill to exploit it fully. Airwalker for example was created during one of Galactus' weaker times and so proved to be the weakest of heralds resulting in his death at the hands of a concerted assault by non-cosmic foes (one of the alien races that had survived Galactus eating their planet). Quasar was well on the way to beating the Silver Surfer (since his Quantum bands let him drain away the Surfer's cosmic energies) until he threw the fight since he was championing the bad guy. Terrax being mainly a brute relied overmuch on physical might and on that end the likes of Thor and the Hulk are more than a match for him, and so on.]]> Nightmask General Discussion Mon, 30 Dec 2013 17:18:37 -0700 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64412#msg-64412 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?3,62822,64412#msg-64412 -------------------------------------------------------
> I think Thor would beat Gladiator or the Surfer.


And your reasoning for this would be....?

Thor is great and all, but without that hammer he's not much more than really strong mortal. Surfer, on the other hand, has Power Cosmic all the time. And from what I know of Power Cosmic, that pretty much grants him the ability to create Black Holes on command.

"Excuse me, Silver Surfer, but my Hammer is coming down upon thee!"

"I think not. Enjoy the excessive gravitational pull from the black hole that just opened up DIRECTLY ON YOU."

No contest here. Anyone with Power Cosmic should always and without question defeat someone without it.]]> Scarecrow71 General Discussion Mon, 30 Dec 2013 15:54:56 -0700