Karma is a... *cough* Language! (Power Stunts) Karma... that characteristic so beloved of heroes, and dreaded by players, especially when it comes to Power Stunts. Based on my recollection, each time one tries to succeed at a new Stunt the following happens: Judge decides if Stunt is allowed First attempt = Red result Second and third attempt = Yellow result Fourth + attempt = Green result Each attempt costs 100 karma, succeed or fail. On the eleventh successful Stunt attempt, the trick is permanently learned. Thus a Power Stunt costs a minimum of 1100 karma, with no upper cap on the maximum amount one has to spend due to failures. Might be 1200, might be 3000... or more. As a player, this uncertainty always bugged me. The suggested alternate rule is to only pay when the goal is met, thus fixing the cost of learning a Power Stunt at 1100 karma total. In line with the existing rules, that could be after each success pay the 100 karma, or for those who prefer a "learn more from failure than success" style, pay after each failure. Either way, after the eleventh occurrence of meeting the goal and only paying 1100 karma, the Stunt is mastered. Thoughts? https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?9,85590,85590#msg-85590 Tue, 14 May 2024 20:03:28 -0600 Phorum 5.2.22 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?9,85590,85889#msg-85889 Re: Karma is a... *cough* Language! (Power Stunts) https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?9,85590,85889#msg-85889
Power stunts are quite powerful. No its not like developing an entirely new superpower but its still hella useful, so there show be a significant cost. And you can easily wrack up a couple of 100 Karma in even a low tier game.

Where I make my changes is Karma for advancement. Sure superheroes before the 90s levels up pretty darn slowly which I think the game is intended to reflect but I like to give my players a chance for a sense of forward accomplishment. So it costs significantly less to advance (but still not a speed run to godhood) and the spending of Karma on stunts doesnt feel like a life changing sacrifice of character progression.

As an optional rule pehaps a lowering of the cost shows a greater mastery as you succeed.

100 Karma for the red attemts
50 for the yellow
25 for the green

And if using the blue results perhaps double the cost for the next attempt or one success is lost (if you are using the revised universal table).]]> Mr Happy Your Favorites & Game Revisions Wed, 04 Oct 2023 12:05:52 -0600 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?9,85590,85834#msg-85834 Re: Karma is a... *cough* Language! (Power Stunts) https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?9,85590,85834#msg-85834
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barna10
But then you look at Magneto....his "Magnetism" powers were stretched into him controlling the entire electr0-magnetic spectrum, non-ferrous metals, and even light, x-rays, and gamma radiation.
I sometimes think it goes too far. Magneto I think is a good example of that... another is Sebastian Shaw who went from absorbing kinetic energy and growing physically stronger to being able to absorb any kind of energy, such as when he fought depowered Hercules who attacked him with a magic sword that could cut through anything and he essentially ignored the attack and it was handwaved away as "It's all energy."

I don't know, it just feels like power stunts can definitely go too far... like if someone tried to power stunt Hulk's Alter Ego power to transform into Captain America because hey, that would be using the power different than intended. Or if Thor tried to use Weather Control communicate with animals.]]> Thrudjelmer Your Favorites & Game Revisions Thu, 10 Aug 2023 07:42:57 -0600 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?9,85590,85821#msg-85821 Re: Karma is a... *cough* Language! (Power Stunts) https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?9,85590,85821#msg-85821 barna10 Your Favorites & Game Revisions Fri, 04 Aug 2023 18:06:47 -0600 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?9,85590,85807#msg-85807 Re: Karma is a... *cough* Language! (Power Stunts) https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?9,85590,85807#msg-85807 The Real Time Traveller (R) Your Favorites & Game Revisions Sun, 30 Jul 2023 03:09:37 -0600 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?9,85590,85630#msg-85630 Re: Karma is a... *cough* Language! (Power Stunts) https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?9,85590,85630#msg-85630 Thrudjelmer Your Favorites & Game Revisions Sun, 07 May 2023 19:44:09 -0600 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?9,85590,85627#msg-85627 Re: Karma is a... *cough* Language! (Power Stunts) https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?9,85590,85627#msg-85627 Whatever fits your needs to make the game challenging and not something that is overwhelming is fine.
Balance is all the key]]> MajorSteel Your Favorites & Game Revisions Tue, 02 May 2023 21:07:21 -0600 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?9,85590,85616#msg-85616 Re: Karma is a... *cough* Language! (Power Stunts) https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?9,85590,85616#msg-85616 The Real Time Traveller (R) Your Favorites & Game Revisions Sat, 01 Apr 2023 20:45:08 -0600 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?9,85590,85612#msg-85612 Re: Karma is a... *cough* Language! (Power Stunts) https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?9,85590,85612#msg-85612
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tystates
I think you have to pay at the time of each attempt. At least that's how it would work in my game.

I do believe that is the original rules.

My suggested modification is that you can attempt it whenever, but you only pay the karma on a success. Otherwise, I was not modifying the rules as I was going for the minimal change route. Thus one might have to try 14 or 20 times, but using my suggested modification means that the player will only pay 1100 karma per power stunt, not more (like was possible in the original rules).

Given that buying a new power is 3000+starting rank karma (iirc), power stunts are cheaper.

Maybe the total cost should be rounded to 1000, just for the easy math and the easy association that 3 power stunts are equal to a new power, thus giving a baseline for comparison?]]> nijineko Your Favorites & Game Revisions Tue, 28 Mar 2023 19:46:54 -0600 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?9,85590,85608#msg-85608 Re: Karma is a... *cough* Language! (Power Stunts) https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?9,85590,85608#msg-85608
Where it will suck is with a low powered character without much karma and therefore not much chance of shifting the needle. But on the other hand, maybe that is a correct built in balance? There's a reason there was a persistent Spider-Man comic book and not one for say Paladin or some other schlub.]]> The Real Time Traveller (R) Your Favorites & Game Revisions Fri, 24 Mar 2023 03:03:07 -0600 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?9,85590,85606#msg-85606 Re: Karma is a... *cough* Language! (Power Stunts) https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?9,85590,85606#msg-85606
So in your example of Spider-Man, he would pull off the web parachute perfectly the first time. And he did it with Karma, but since he didn't keep practicing and keeping getting checks, he couldn't do it in later appearances at will and wanted to save karma so didn't.]]> Username Your Favorites & Game Revisions Thu, 16 Mar 2023 10:39:08 -0600 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?9,85590,85602#msg-85602 Re: Karma is a... *cough* Language! (Power Stunts) https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?9,85590,85602#msg-85602
Training montage after a big defeat would make more sense - like Spider-Man first making his rubber suit to fight Electro. But there was an inventive realism to Ditko Spider-Man so he's probably a bad example.

The high cost and repetitive requirements always read to me like, "we don't really want change." :)]]> The Real Time Traveller (R) Your Favorites & Game Revisions Wed, 15 Mar 2023 14:17:25 -0600 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?9,85590,85601#msg-85601 Re: Karma is a... *cough* Language! (Power Stunts) https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?9,85590,85601#msg-85601 Username Your Favorites & Game Revisions Wed, 15 Mar 2023 07:09:38 -0600 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?9,85590,85599#msg-85599 Re: Karma is a... *cough* Language! (Power Stunts) https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?9,85590,85599#msg-85599 tystates Your Favorites & Game Revisions Tue, 14 Mar 2023 18:26:48 -0600 https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?9,85590,85590#msg-85590 Karma is a... *cough* Language! (Power Stunts) https://classicmarvelforever.com/phorum/read.php?9,85590,85590#msg-85590
Based on my recollection, each time one tries to succeed at a new Stunt the following happens:
  1. Judge decides if Stunt is allowed
  2. First attempt = Red result
  3. Second and third attempt = Yellow result
  4. Fourth + attempt = Green result

Each attempt costs 100 karma, succeed or fail.

On the eleventh successful Stunt attempt, the trick is permanently learned. Thus a Power Stunt costs a minimum of 1100 karma, with no upper cap on the maximum amount one has to spend due to failures. Might be 1200, might be 3000... or more.

As a player, this uncertainty always bugged me.

The suggested alternate rule is to only pay when the goal is met, thus fixing the cost of learning a Power Stunt at 1100 karma total.

In line with the existing rules, that could be after each success pay the 100 karma, or for those who prefer a "learn more from failure than success" style, pay after each failure. Either way, after the eleventh occurrence of meeting the goal and only paying 1100 karma, the Stunt is mastered.

Thoughts?]]> nijineko Your Favorites & Game Revisions Mon, 13 Mar 2023 13:02:12 -0600