This was a very popular thread on the old board. Before the forum shut down there was around 5000 views, so I thought I would bring it back to life.

Once again...I'm going first.

What If? The Silver Surfer never escaped the confines of Earth?




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2008 09:37AM by The Last Duskblade.

That was actually covered in an issue of the original What-if? title. He became a member of the Fantastic Four (because Champion never attacked as he did during Silver Surver #1 to give Ben reason to suggest he skip using his board to get into space) but as a result of machinations by Mephisto he sold himself into eternal bondage in Mephisto's Realm in exchance for Mephisto withdrawing all its demons from the Earth Dimension (and returning the surviving members of the FF to earth after he killed Johnny Storm as a demonstration). By the end his taunting Mephisto got him killed but unfortunately for Mephisto reduced to a pure soul unbound by flesh his burning purity ended up torturing Mephisto for eternity.

Very cool indeed. I'll have to check that one out.

Had he lived what do you think his continued effect on the course of events in that timeline would have been?

He is the type of character who seems like he would have a meaningful effect on almost every major event in history. With his power class and spirit he could have done so much to make things better, or at least different then they turned out in Marvel-616. One of my favorite characters of all time.

Oh but the surfer had an eternal effect on the nature of that alternate timeline, as Mephisto's lack of interference on the earth brought about a marked decrease in crime and evil in general on Earth and due to his binding agreement that he couldn't exit his domain left him basically powerless to affect events, especially once Surfer became a shining soul so wasn't there to do things like tempt Thanos during the Infinity Gauntlet Affair or try and get a cosmic cube during the Crusade.

Ooooo.....nice. Just by effecting Mephisto's role in the universe he did change a hell (just fo pun purposes) of a lot. Very interesting take on that alternate timeline.

What if Ben Riley never died? And what if he became friends with Spidey or Became and enemy of his? Imagine the chaos he could cause with one Spidey doing good things and another doing bad but both looking exactly the same?! Or imagine the team up of the two and how that would affect the crime rate and their efficiency in dealing with super-powered foes? I figure even if he lived Marvel wouldn't let them stay together. They would likely send one to the west coast. Hmm now that I think of it it only makes sense if Ben turns bad guy. What does anyone else think?

Actually, along the same lines, what if Gwen Stacy never died? I bet they did a what if on that? Still I would like to see that done without any strange twists. Just a simple profression like that of Peter and Mary Jane!

Dude, that is a good one. I'm all for them teaming up, or working in shifts to give Peter Parker some time off occasionally. Keep the world thinking that there is only one Spider-Man, and just switch who is in the costume every now and then.

For the old what-if where Ben Reilly lived (during the original battle it was the clone that reacted more swiftly and managed to knock the original unconscious) the clone eventually realized it was a clone, released the original from the cryo-chamber he'd placed him in, and they teamed up to defeat the Kingpin with one being Peter Parker and the other Spider-man. At the end they decided it was a great deal and looked forward to working together and the benefits it provided for maintaining his dual-identity.

For the what-if Gwen lived Norman Osborn revealed Spider-man's identity by mailing the truth to JJJ only to have Spider-man shake him out of his evil before it was published (gaining his undying gratitude in the bargain) and on his wedding day right after marrying Gwen Stacy a self-righteous JJJ comes in right after the vows are spoken with the police grandly proclaiming for them to arrest him sending him into hiding and outing his identity to the world. That's the point where the issue ended, with Spider-man on the run, no secret-identity, wedding night ruined and fearing he'd be driven to crime to survive.

You'd think Mephisto would have known better but apparently his greed and his arrogant pride led to his downfall just as it does for so many others. It's unfortunate that Johnny Storm ended up dead in that reality though, although at least his soul didn't end up Mephisto's plaything.

What if Wolverine was bombarded by Cosmic Rays? Would his body be able to shake off the radiation or would he gain Sh-Z Regeneration and claws ten feet long?

It's probably difficult to mutate someone like Wolverine when his regenerative factor actively resists mutation and change, and if he was to mutate there's no certainty what he's develop (although his claws wouldn't grow any longer as he's body's bound by the restrictions of his Adamantium skeleton). If he were to mutate it's just as likely he's develop more feral attributes and/or new powers as for him to see increased regenerative ability. Plus not everything causes a power-up, he could end up with a normal human healing factor or almost human after a mutating experience instead of more powerful.

I also liked the stories after the Thing go futher mutated by cosmic rays. I liked the idea of having his abilities ampted. I would love to see a what if the Reed, Sue, & Johnny were also also further mutated by additional cosmic rays? I don't know if you would just raise there stats by a column shift or give them additional bonus powers. Either way I think it would be interesting.

I’ll go crazy here. What if Doctor Doom became the sorcerer supreme?

Dr. Doom as the Sorcerer Supreme has already been done, not well, but it was done.

How about:

What if Spider-Man stayed blind
What if James Rhodes remained Iron Man (the most morbid possibility being that Stark died of exposure)
What if Dr Doom won Secret Wars (might have been done, but I don't remember it)
What if Peter Parker had married Betty Brant (or any of the other girls over the years, besides the Black Cat, who had a what if)
What if Reed Richards had cured the Thing

Well in the what-if Bill Foster didn't have to give up his cure to the virus that was mutating the Thing and it actually caused his body to purge itself of his cosmic rays and returned him to being a normal human and Bill Foster took his place in the FF and rose to being a real hero. If that happened to everyone else it would conceivably return them all to normal humans (although Reed knows how to restore their powers anytime he wants, it's eliminating them that he seems unable to do). In the short-term further mutation would likely make their powers too intense for them to control, since the others have more expansive powers than Ben does. Then again as Ben's grown vastly stronger over the years with specialized exercises proper conditioning could improve all of them another CS.

When was Spider-man blind? They did do what if he'd kept the extra arms though.

Well if Doom won the Secret Wars and kept the Beyonder's powers it'd be like events with the Infinity Gauntlet only worse, as not even the Living Tribunal could bother him, although if he kept to his stated goal of going to another dimension after freeing his mother's soul and abandon the earth realm he would have left to do as the Beyonder did and remove himself to a safe dimension and become everything in it. Might have even evolved beyond his original self to become a benevolant being.

Reed's Cured Ben on multiple occasions, but as you're never allowed to remain depowered as an A-class hero he's always been powered back up by something, often by being forced to zap himself with the device that transforms him into the Thing for added insult to injury. Hmmm, although the first occasion Reed zapped him because 'I'm sorry old friend but we need your strength'. In at least one what-if though created by the Thing it meant his counterpart survived when Galactus came to eat earth as his normal human form meant he didn't end up in the battle with Galactus to get killed off like the other heroes.

What if (insert superhero name) was implanted with a chestburster? Would the alien that came out have their powers?

Hmmm, how about What-if Spider-man had remained Spider-Hulk or Spider-Lizard, perhaps even mastering it to add to his own formidable abilities?

Spider-man was blind for about two issues of PPSSM around 1979.

With, Ben Grimm, I guess it would be around the beginning, or the FF with someone else.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2008 05:02PM by Toran Ironfinder.

Hmm, this is fun! I would like to see What if Galactus took the Hulk as his first Herald? What if Captain America gained the power of Thor? He actually picked up the hammer once and tossed it to Thor, but he was wearing the Captains uniform [I think] yet never changed?!

How about What if Beta Ray Bill killed Thor and took his place? When they fought for the right to weild Mjolnir Beta Ray Bill woke in time to save himself and Thor from being consumed by lava. He could have just let him die. And Thor acted like a big baby so Odin gave Beta Ray Bill his own hammer Stormbreaker!

What if Daredevil had the Venom costume? Or.......What if Charles Xavier became the Juggernaut? What if Sue Storm remained Malice? Or What if the X-Men were killed in the Phoenix Saga fight against the Shi'ar Imperial Guard?

Well they covered what happened if Professor X became Juggernaut (he depowered a number of super-humans, including the FF, threatened others, triggered a global thermonuclear war and set himself up as dictator lording it over all the earth until some of his trusted X-men realized how far his dream has fallen and worked in a distastful union with Magneto to exile the Professor into space).

Odin might have raised Thor from the dead or someone would have at some point if Bill had let Thor die or failed to save him (or had killed him while still human on the earth plane), as he's not shown much willingness to leave Thor dead. At least one What-if Sif sacrificed her life in trade to see Thor restored to life.

For the Phoenix saga if the X-men were killed then when Jean Grey went Phoenix again she'd have destroyed everything until she expanded enough to draw the attention of the Celestials or Living Tribunal who'd have stepped in to reign her in and shut her down because at that point she'd have been a threat to the cosmic balance. Something similar happened when the X-men lost and Jean Grey was given a 'psychic lobotomy' to destroy her powers but they eventually returned and her dark side took over killing everyone before comsuming everything.

I think we've seem some what-if realities where it's likely Susan Storm retained that evil Malice persona in the Exiles comics and she was quite ruthless and deadly so her remaining evil she'd have likely killed Reed and the rest of the FF to eliminate any emotional ties that might return her to being good and set out to use the FF's technology and her powers to conquer the world.

Ok I feel ridiculous so I will post just a few more and then wait to see if anyone posts after...... What if Charles Xavier got the Phoenix power? What if Aunt May was bitten by the radioactive spider instead of Peter Parker? What if Dr Doom was made into a Herald of Galactus? What if the Phoenix killed the X-men and only the Avengers were left to stop her? What if the Hulk was on earth for the entire Civil War saga? What if the heroes never returned from the Heroes Reborn dimension? What if Rogue turned evil and absorbed all the X-Men's powers? What if Captain America never turned himself in to the SRA?

Well Aunt May became the amazing Spider-aunt and tried to swing around using sewing thread, Professor X enjoyed it for the what-if where he briefly got to use the Phoenix Force after it was used to resurrect him, Doom would NEVER be chosen to be a herald unless Galactus got his word of honor to serve him faithfully, there would have been vast destruction as they tried to contain the hulk in service to the SRA, and I think they might have published a What-if Cap hadn't surrendered but haven't seen it.

I would love to see a what if Rogue was taken over by the Shadowking. Then have her betray the X-Men and go on a rampage, steeling superpowers left and right (including villains). She would be an almost unstoppable one man army.

I had a similar idea to that one years ago, I'd still like to see it done, though.

Playing catch up a little bit here, as you guys are posting maniacs.

On the Beta Ray Bill and Thor thing, I think it is likely that if he let Thor die, he would have been unworthy to wield Mjolnir. In addition I agree with Nighmask in that someone would have resurrected Thor after a while. At which point he would pick up his hammer and start swinging it around as per usual.

Hmmm, that's a good point. Bill wouldn't have been able to keep the hammer if he let Thor die (since Odin defines what's worthy and letting a fellow warrior die like that would have been ignoble of him). Although when someone referred to Thor being a 'crybaby' about it I seem to remember it being more Odin noting the hammer was meant for Thor and Bill not wanting to take something meant for someone else and asking Odin for another path. At that point Odin revealed he'd commissioned another hammer just for Bill as befit his worthy heart.

One of the better character moves Marvel has ever made in my opinion. I'm a fan of Beta Ray Bill's and think he is a great supporting hero. Someday I'd actually like to see him stand in for Thor, or get his own title. As a side note, I also really like Thunderstrike. He was a cool character even before he got the power of Thor to himself, or his own powers.

Unfortunately Bill just ends up a Whipping Boy at Marvel and subjected to various tortures by writers who think of him as just a Thor knock-off, like the destruction of his people and I think his last appearance had him trapped in an alien dimension sacrificing himself to protect earth. The poor guy just can't win, just like Eric Masterson went from temp-Thor to poorly treated hero as Thunderstrike before being killed off.

Ok I'll grant your nobility claims as far as saving Thor's life. It seems inherent in his character to have done that anyway, but Thor was a crybaby about it and Beta Ray Bill -being honorable- refused to take what was meant for someone else, it was only that the vast power it contained would seemingly make him victorious over his people's enemies to which Odin could not let Beta Ray Bill leave empty handed! Plus it would be a disgrace on his part to allow this champion to leave with nothing after besting his son twice and refusing what he rightfully won in single combat. It was Thor who looked bad and learned a lesson in humility that day! I have three issues of that book! Go read it and correct me!