Hello, was looking through the rules recently and looked at the vehicle rules. I don't like them, but was wondering what other people though of them and if they used them. If you have a house rule for the vehicle rules then I'd be interested in hearing that too. I personally find the rules to be confusing and mostly unnecessary for what I need.

Which aspect of the rules do you not like? I haven't used them in years...reviewing....

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barna10
Which aspect of the rules do you not like? I haven't used them in years...reviewing....

All of them. Honestly, the worst is trying to figure out the control stat vs how the driver's ability. It's not as cut and dry as the main book at all and I feel like it's so finicky and strange number of rulings compared to how simple the base game is. It feels a lot like the flying rules, but dialed up to 11. (Not a huge fan of the flying rules either, but they're not as bad. I just think they could stand a major simplification which is howe I use them)

Had a car chase/fast driving event and it was a bit of a mess.

So control rank is the hero's Agility or the Control Stat of the vehicle, whichever is lower.

You are referring to this?

Thanks for answering, ya, doesn't it seems weird? Do you think talent bonus should apply to the roll? Honestly, it wasn't the issue as much as the situation. The guy in the luxury car with a driving talent and an agility of Incredible couldn't catch random mook number 2 with an agility of Typical and in a mini car. Partly bad luck, but partly because the random mook with the cash had way better chances to hit. I also wasn't a fan personally of the cars reducing body instead of just having health.

Yes, a Talent would add to effective Agility for determining control.

So, your hero would have IN, but the "luxury car" only has a Control of PR -> You would roll on the PR column, modified by Driving Talent.

The Talent modifies the column you roll on, not the Attribute. This is spelled out nicely under Pilot: "...receives a +1CS for all FEAT rolls involving an aircraft the character is controlling (including Control FEATs, Agility FEATs, and Reason FEATs involving aircraft handling and design". This can apply to cars instead of aircraft.

Or from the Ultimate Talents Book: "The hero has been trained to drive a vehicle. Such as a car, truck, van, or motorcycle. +1 CS To All actions Involving Driving A Vehicle."

"Body" IS the vehicle's "Health". Cars don't have Karma, aren't affected by Fate, don't get more skillful ie ALL damage is actual damage

yeah, I do not see the issue, but maybe I need to re-read it. rolling on a lower column (example: poor limo vs a typical car). I can see an argument about driver skill, but I'd never really had any such examples come up in play. If something ensured victory, it is being heroic/being able to spend karma to succeed. Still, one might want to work on more varied rules if for some reason your campaign has a lot of "car wars", "ghost riding", "Blackhawks" "speed racer", "agents of SHIELD", "batman", "GI Joe", or "enemy ace" (etc, etc).

what I've always seen as a problem is body; vehicles are just too feeble compared to people & creatures. Very easy to house rule this into being more like the rest of the game though!

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GenghisDon
yeah, I do not see the issue, but maybe I need to re-read it. rolling on a lower column (example: poor limo vs a typical car). I can see an argument about driver skill, but I'd never really had any such examples come up in play. If something ensured victory, it is being heroic/being able to spend karma to succeed. Still, one might want to work on more varied rules if for some reason your campaign has a lot of "car wars", "ghost riding", "Blackhawks" "speed racer", "agents of SHIELD", "batman", "GI Joe", or "enemy ace" (etc, etc).

what I've always seen as a problem is body; vehicles are just too feeble compared to people & creatures. Very easy to house rule this into being more like the rest of the game though!

A car cannot defend itself. It cannot dodge, doesn't have luck, etc

It's "health" (ie Body) is simply it's metal and plastic parts.

A hero's health accounts for luck, defense, fate, etc.

It makes sense that an inanimate object has less "health" that a character.

they(could/would/should) have the pilot's luck, defensive abilities (within limits of mechanical ability), etc.

I hear you, but no. Vehicles are too feeble in MSH,. A tank has 40 points. A single blow from Spiderman totals a bulldozer (incredible/40 str vs excellent/20 body). A taxi has typical body(resist 6, has 6). Daredevil can pretty easy smash/demolish 3 taxis PER ROUND with his billy club (3 attacks of excellent/16 damage). A TRAIN has good body (10/10)...one blast from a shotgun (20 points)takes out a train? Nah, or even if less is correct, it's WAY TOO MUCH LESS as is.

perhaps, for the low end, using a size rating (based on growth power?) as additional "health" to body would work? the size mods to hit would also apply/make sense (although the list is merely human heights & not overall mass/size)

Also....Vehicles do not take damage like heroes do. You do not subtract points from their Body.

Look at the tables on page 51 of the Adv Player's Book. You reduce ranks based on Damage and a Body roll.

Now, I think it's still a bit off....

For instance, that tank is supposed to roll for ANY damage it receives on the IN table...but needs a Yellow or Red result to take NO damage...meaning even if I run up and punch the tank, it could potentially take damage....

I'd apply the automatic success rule, meaning anything -3CS or more lower than the Body rank is simply ignored. I'd probably go with -2CS myself. This would mean the tank would ignore, completely, any damage EX or below.

ah, I'd forgotten that, but I think the chart is just an extra. In any event, this is the area vehicles fall apart rules wise, much worse than the piloting parts.

"Body: amount of damage the craft may take before failing to operate; its personal body armor and material strength" pg 40

Judging by the basic book on the matter, perhaps you are correct (in advanced) though. Which makes for an even worse mess. Thor striking with Mjolnir CANNOT (SH X damage) destroy any vehicle? -1 body is as bad as it gets? and a crash, perhaps.

Username is wholly correct, they are bad rules, the vehicles stuff.

Body is an issue though I hadn't thought it through as much as you all did, just that it was a bit more annoying to track with the rank reducing and then rolling on the new ran.

Really though, I could have a professional racecar driver and stuntman who is someone like James Bond and he would drive significantly worse than another character who has no skills but a car control skill of a higher rank. It doesn't make sense to the fiction or the world. It would work much better if the control tank was a minimum instead of a maximum rank.

Just give the vehicle FASERIP stats, similar to a regular Character Write Up, such as a Robot....

Fighting = Handling, Drifting, 'Skilled' Driving (higher stat is easier for driving and manipulation of weapon systems or 'dexterity' of the vehicle)
Agility = Acceleration, Deceleration and Top Speed of the vehicle.
Strength = Towing, Payload, Cargo, Engine Power, (could also be considered for Body and Chassis Constitution / Construction)
Endurance = Fuel and Battery Reserves, passenger safety equipment, Re-Starts after panic, damage, or crash situations.

Reasoning = This is if the vehicle has its own self-contained Artificial Intelligence, such as a Robot or Android.
Intuition = A.I. sensory equipment, such as radar, sonar, camera, and various surveillance equipment (5 physical senses)
Psyche = A.I. Artificial Intelligence systems and internal 'Software'.

If the vehicle doesn't have full blown Robot / Android A.I. then the Driver and Passengers provide the RIP stats... and technically a vehicle wouldn't have a 'Fighting' Stat... But, it can suffice as a broad 'Handling' stat for Skilled and Aggressive driving...

And let's face it, if you're Role-Playing a Character that relies on a vehicle........ It's gonna be a variant of the Batmobile, K.I.T.T. Car, or some other fully autonomous battle ship.... Ghost Rider's motorcycle and Galactus' Battle-Ship are is 'Fully' autonomous.

Next would be the vehicle's specific and special characteristics, such as an Armored Hull, Land, Sea, Air, Space travel capabilities, and finally the vehicle's on-board weapon systems.

FUG-IT!!!!!!

Let's stat the Batmobile!!!!
The more grounded in reality 'Bat-Bale' Tumbler.



F: RM:30 (or use Character's stats if better + all weapons systems used on this stat as well)
A: IN:40 (Top Speed about 130MPH. Ground Only Vehicle / Urban or Rural Land Terrain)
S: RM:35 (Tow Capacity at about 5 tons or 10,000 pounds)
E: AM:50 (Primarily feat rolled after damage is received)
R: Driver's stat (some automated features, but not fully Automated / Robot / Android A.I.)
I: Driver's stat (some automated features, but not fully Automated / Robot / Android A.I.)
P: Driver's stat (some automated features, but not fully Automated / Robot / Android A.I.)

HP: 155 (100 minor / 77 sufficient / 38 critical malfunctions / 0 HP = Launch Bat-Bike and Self-Destruct sequence)
KP: Driver's stat (some automated features, but not fully Automated / Robot / Android A.I.)

Special Features (Powers and Secondary Abilities)

• Armored Hull: GD:10 up to IN:40 to resist conventional Physical and Energy Damages and Impacts. Includes Kinetic, Physical Explosive, Piercing, Fire, Ice, Temperature, Toxic, Acidic, Radiation, and various magic attacks that use conventional payloads.

• Speed Boost and Leap Function: EX:20 up to RM:30. Roll vehicle's 'Agility' or Driver's 'Fighting' at AM:50 (or whichever is better) to have the Tumbler 'Jump' 30 / 40 / 50 / 60 feet to clear various obstacles at roughly 10-feet high. Can be used every 3rd Game Round without ill effects or Feat Roll Tumbler's 'Endurance' Stat for consecutive Jumps and Leaps.

• Frontal Collision: RM:30. Treat the Tumbler as an 'Unstoppable' brute force capable of moving through barricades, obstacles and debris of RM:30 solid mass without ill effects or malfunctions. Speed (Agility) is reduced to EX:20 and Power (Strength) is increased to IN:40. Collisions with any obstacles of AM:50 or greater will result in RM:30 Damage to the Tumbler's 155 HP and may result in a required (Endurance) Feat to keep the Tumbler running and mobile.

• He-Lo 'Air' Drop: RM:30. The Tumbler can be air lifted by any conventional aircraft with the cargo capacity of a commercial 747 airplane, C-130 airbus, or Large Cargo Helicopter. The Tumbler can be equipped with parachutes to survive terminal velocity free-falls with minimal damage or impact. Upon landing and driving away the parachutes will re-coil and spool back into the Tumbler's rear cargo storage compartment. This apparatus can also be outfitted with up to 6 launchable ensnarement nets, each at a size of 20 feet by 20 feet to entangle perusing vehicles behind the Tumbler.

• Various Ranged Weapons / Cannons / Guns / SAM: GD:10 up to IN:40. The Tumbler can be equipped and upfitted with conventional Military Vehicle Ordnance and Munitions (Railguns / Miniguns / Missals) with a maximum output damage of IN:40 impact on the Energy Colum. Handle all 'Weapons' Feat Rolls on the Tumbler's 'Fighting' Stat or Character's Stats if applicable. Ranges and Targeting CPU are operational up to about 3 miles away. Longer ranged weapons, such as a guided SAM, can reach ranges up to 10 miles away. Feat Roll the Tumbler's 'Endurance' Stat to re-load ammunition reserves to eliminate 'Pit-Stops' or incorporate the Gamer Hack of 'Infinite Ammo' reserves. (Solid Snake / Rambo Rag wrapped around your nugget)

• Various Gas / Smoke / Cloud / EMP / AoE Weapons: GD:10 up to AM:50. The Tumbler can be equipped with conventional Military Vehicle 'Smoke' Bombs or large grenades used to surround the Tumbler in thick, obscuring smoke or undetectable poison gas up to 20-feet in all directions around the Tumbler.

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I could keep writing stuff... but mommy sez it's past my bedtime...

Honestly, I pretty much agree with you. I was working on some alternate rules. Pretty similar to just running it off of the normal character rules. I'll share it when I finish.