What exactly is the process for using a shield (or something like it) during a combat round? Take Captain America or Taskmaster for example. The rules on pg. 31 of the Advanced Player's Book mention that if declared as an initial action, Cap could use his shield (presumably making a Fighting FEAT to stop an attack) and take one other action. Could that other action be an attack? If successful with a Multiple Attack FEAT (pretty easy for Cap of Taskmaster), can he get up to three shielding attempts and three attacks? Curious.

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Descartes Demon
What exactly is the process for using a shield (or something like it) during a combat round? Take Captain America or Taskmaster for example. The rules on pg. 31 of the Advanced Player's Book mention that if declared as an initial action, Cap could use his shield (presumably making a Fighting FEAT to stop an attack) and take one other action. Could that other action be an attack? If successful with a Multiple Attack FEAT (pretty easy for Cap of Taskmaster), can he get up to three shielding attempts and three attacks? Curious.

I would say yes. And for yummy combat flavor, add Cap's Unique Weapon: Shield column shift modifiers to the Fighting FEAT to negate some of the column shift penalties for multiple targets. Why have Cap whoop one person's ass per round when he can whoop everyone with reach?

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Advanced Player's Book, page 31
Shielding: This tactic involves putting something between the target and the attacker, usually an inanimate abject but sometimes, in the case of hero leaping into the fray to stop an attack on another individual, a character himself.

In the first case, the hero may decide to use something as a shield as an initial action or as a changed action after initiative is rolled. If it is an initial action, the hero may perform another action in addition to the action. If a changed action, the hero may perform no other action that round than shielding. In either case, all other FEATs attempted in that round, including combat are -2CS unless the object used as a shield is a device or object commonly used by the hero in that way (the hero is comfortable using the device defensively). The material strength of the item is used as a form of Body Armor against the attack (if a garbage can lid is used as a shield, it will provide Poor (4) protection). This applies only to physical attacks and similar attacks that may be deflected in this manner. This form of defense may be used against Slugfest, Throwing, Shooting, and Charging attacks, but not Grappling and Grabbing attacks.

There is no shield FEAT roll. You either use it and gain it's benefits, or you don't... and when the shield action is declared affects the mechanics.

• Ideal situation: using an actual shield and declaring its use to block before initiative is rolled. Captain America can use his shield to block an attack as a free action; there are no penalties associated with it.
• Manhole cover: using a manhole cover to block an attack because it's the only thing on hand, but being prepared and declaring the use of it to block prior to initiative means it's still a free action, but because it's not a typical shield object, the character suffers a -2CS penalty to all other FEATs that turn (to account for the awkwardness of trying to use the heavy metal disk).
• Impromptu chair block: let's assume the character was going to all out attack for the turn but then his opponent pulls out a knife. Making a successful Yellow Agility FEAT to change actions, the character decides to grab a nearby chair and use it as a shield from the dangerous bladed attack. Because this action was not planned at the start of the combat round, the character must use one of his standard combat actions (or the only one if he isn't capable of multiple actions). Additionally, whether the character has any actions remaining or not, all FEAT rolls for the round are at -2CS because the chair is not a standard shield object... so if the Judge calls for an Intuition FEAT, consider the character a little distracted by being forced to use this non-shield object to defend against an impending stab attack.
• Unexpected shield block? Captain America is separated from his shield and just trying to dodge enemy attacks. Seeing that Cap is in danger from an Ultron attack, Hawkeye recovers the shield and throws it to him. Captain America makes a successful Yellow Agility FEAT and changes his action from possible avoidance with a Dodge FEAT to the guaranteed success of blocking the attack with his indestructible shield... This will require him to also make a successful multiple attacks roll to have at least 2 actions: one to catch the incoming shield, and a second to use it to block the attack. Of course, Captain America has an Amazing Fighting and gets lucky enough to have 3 attacks... and then uses his third action hurl the shield at Ultron (at -3CS penalty... -1 for multiple actions, and -2CS for having declared a shield block after initiative was rolled).

Good summation Thrudjelmer. I *really* need to download the rule books again lol. I always assumed it was Cap's Unique Weapon Shield bonus (+2cs) that negated the -2cs penalty for taking other actions along with the shielding. It's clumsily worded, but six in one hand and a half dozen in the other it all arrives at the same result. Cap can shield and whoop ass at the same time because of his unique Weapon talent. Cap wouldn't be penalized for additional actions beyond shielding, but if that additional action was attacking multiple opponents his Unique Weapon talent would buffer that penalty from -4cs to -2cs. Imagine a cluster of HYDRA goons trying to bum rush Cap and they smash their fists into his shield while he breaks all of their jaws with a sweeping shield bash ..

before we begin, does anyone want to get off the elevator?

interesting side note, the basic rules ( and some official write ups for advanced rules ) have it that Captain America can shield himself ( absorb ) 90 points of damage per round. the advanced MSH game rule does not mention this just the material strength of the object being used as a " shield "

The 90 points stat was probably an arbitrary number and never sat well with me because of that. the 90 points itself was fine.

Although if they said the POINTS that were able to be absorbed were calculated by adding the characters - Fighting- + Agility OR Agility+ Strength + Endurance

to get said number I would understand. Probably because Captain America's TSR write ups/stats come to 90 POINTS for either of those formulas.

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G.A.W.
interesting side note, the basic rules ( and some official write ups for advanced rules ) have it that Captain America can shield himself ( absorb ) 90 points of damage per round. the advanced MSH game rule does not mention this just the material strength of the object being used as a " shield "

The 90 points stat was probably an arbitrary number and never sat well with me because of that. the 90 points itself was fine.

Although if they said the POINTS that were able to be absorbed were calculated by adding the characters - Fighting- + Agility OR Agility+ Strength + Endurance

to get said number I would understand. Probably because Captain America's TSR write ups/stats come to 90 POINTS for either of those formulas.

It's kinda like getting to Monstrous damage with Wolverine's berserker claw attack (you can by measuring it as the total of his 3 attacks per round). I always disliked the unexplained numbers.

We've seen Cap use his shield as an umbrella in an avalanche of heavy rocks, take a whack from Thor's hammer or the Hulk's fist and Cap plant his feet to stop a speeding truck and Cap remains standing. That thing doesn't obey the laws of physics at all...

90 points of protection won't do that lol

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Dead Sidekick
We've seen Cap use his shield as an umbrella in an avalanche of heavy rocks, take a whack from Thor's hammer or the Hulk's fist and Cap plant his feet to stop a speeding truck and Cap remains standing. That thing doesn't obey the laws of physics at all...

I don't recall seeing him use it to stop a speeding truck, but...

Advanced Player's Book stats for a van give it Good Speed, Body, and Protection. Let's use it's Body rank as base damage for a charging attack, so 10 points... speed ranks are for safe speeds, so let's increase this by +1CS or even +2CS. Remarkable speed is 90 MPH and would be 7 areas per turn (doubled to 14 for the charging damage), so a speeding Truck would cause 24 points of damage and be potentially fatal to a Typical person. Yup, Cap stopping this with his shield checks out.

Just checked cap's profile here which has his strength raised to Rem(30) - which makes sense,

and the profile has him able to absorb 100 points when shielding. which would be the agility+strength+endurance formula.

its probably just another coincidence.

but I have to say , I like the formula of those 3 stats being used ( as long as the material strength of ones shielding tool holds up to the pressure )

So exactly how many times in a round can he use the shield? That's the bit I'm stuck on (perhaps I'm missing something here). Let's just assume for the sake of discussion that Cap declares he's using his shield before initiative is rolled (optimal situation)

Is there a limit to how many times Cap can use his shield during a round and still move or attack? If he goes full defensive, can he use the shield against all attacks made against him that round?

Or does the arbitrary "stops up to 100 points" act as the limiter (i.e. 5 attacks at 20 points each, 2 attacks at 50 points each, etc.)?

Scenario: Cap faces five agents of HYDRA and declares before initiative is rolled that he will use his shield to block this round. He somehow manages to lose the initiative (unlikely, but still...). Does his shield automatically block all successful attacks made by the five goons this round (assume all attacks are successful and all are legally blockable).

I have a player who will be using Cap for our upcoming game and I just want to get this completely ironed out in my head beforehand. Apologies in advance for seeming somewhat dense...

O.K. I guess I will just put myself out there and tell you how I ran the shielding rules , for good or ill.

The Advanced game only seemed to care about the material strength of the Shield object: so Cap has 1000 point object which can block(shield) technically a 1000 point attack. And depending on how you run breakage could use it again if his Shield isn't broke or dislodged etc....

We used declared actions ( so losing initiative one could still do defensive actions ) if Cap wanted to use his shield twice against , say Wolverine, knowing full well Wolvie would go for two attacks then Cap would have to go for two attacks and use them to shield vs two attacks. Or say the Hulk who might go for 2 attacks yellow gamble ) then Cap could shield Hulks 2attacks of 100, or 150, or 200 or even 500 point damage if Cap went for multiple attacks-converting them to shielding.

----- Most of the time ( because of the way WE ran martial arts, weapon talents etc and shifting up fighting ) Captain America would just go for 3 attacks easy, and just DECLARE 1 shield / 2 attacks ,,,, or 3 shields 0 attacks. or 3 attacks 0 shields or any combination. This limited him with shielding a maximum of 3 ATTACKS against 3 separate opponents ( which is very comic bookish accurate ) but the trade off of a class 1000 shield vs a single attack was pretty good in my opinion. and yet the basic rules version of 90 points could act as simply body armor depending how you ran that version of blocking.
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The Basic Rules ( at least suggested in some official write ups ) have Cap able to " shield " absorb 90 ( or 100 )points of damage in ONE combat round. So as you say --- we would allow 5 ninja Hand with 20 points of edged damage be successfully blocked that round ( more ninja's if some missed their attacks ) and of course you as Judge would have to determine how many attackers are allowed to attack Cap. But if an enraged Hulk at shift -X (150) hits Cap only 100 is absorbed and 50 goes to Cap and any other attacks like She-Hulk hits him for 75 points. I like the idea of Cap shielding , focused on Hulks hit but not having enough balance/ positioning( points!) to shield vs someone else. But could shield against 7, 8 even 10 goons with clubs. Bracing for impact versus different amounts of damage.

The BASIC VERSION of shielding works well if Cap/player declares he's going defensive and shielding---- and that's all he does. If you allow Cap to go for multiple attacks and get 100 points ( or 90 when his strength was only excellent 20 ) of Shield absorption you unbalance him. It would be like having 90 or 100 or x# of points of body armor every round if he can attack plus be protected vs all attacks up to his damage limit, but it is Cap after all. Slams and Stuns are a separate topic, which Cap is subject to even when shielding.

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Our group decided to use the Advanced version in which Cap would " block " pretty much any attack in the comics ( class-1000 ) and if he faced THOR which of course will go for 3 attacks , then Cap would go for three " attacks"--converted to 3 class1000 shield moves. Or he would use just 2 shield moves and attack once hoping Thor would miss once of his three attacks. In a way Cap is basically choosing one , two or three DIRECTIONS he is shielding against.

---- The basic version is the simplest , and in team play works well , so if Villain chooses to attack Cap and he " Shields" the other Avengers can get him.
-----The Advanced version is more complicated , keeping track of multiple attacks and what he does with them.

RAW , Rules As Written I suppose in the Advanced game Cap goes for multiple -3- attacks and ADDITIONALLY uses a non combat action and shields with his class 1000 object vs a single attack- is LEGAL in the rules. So attacks gained in multiple attacks roll are only used for attacking. plus a free defensive move? not sure I like that.

Shielding for Cap works best against ranged attacks because he defend against those attacks that he can't immediately punch up close, and anything that is up close he can also choose to Evade. Don't waste your 90 (or 100) points of blocking on a single super-strong opponent's punch, just evade that and keep the shield block points for the little guys trying to whittle him down.

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Thrudjelmer

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Advanced Player's Book, page 31
Shielding: This tactic involves putting something between the target and the attacker, usually an inanimate abject but sometimes, in the case of hero leaping into the fray to stop an attack on another individual, a character himself.

In the first case, the hero may decide to use something as a shield as an initial action or as a changed action after initiative is rolled. If it is an initial action, the hero may perform another action in addition to the action. If a changed action, the hero may perform no other action that round than shielding. In either case, all other FEATs attempted in that round, including combat are -2CS unless the object used as a shield is a device or object commonly used by the hero in that way (the hero is comfortable using the device defensively). The material strength of the item is used as a form of Body Armor against the attack (if a garbage can lid is used as a shield, it will provide Poor (4) protection). This applies only to physical attacks and similar attacks that may be deflected in this manner. This form of defense may be used against Slugfest, Throwing, Shooting, and Charging attacks, but not Grappling and Grabbing attacks.

There is no shield FEAT roll. You either use it and gain it's benefits, or you don't... and when the shield action is declared affects the mechanics.

• Ideal situation: using an actual shield and declaring its use to block before initiative is rolled. Captain America can use his shield to block an attack as a free action; there are no penalties associated with it.
• Manhole cover: using a manhole cover to block an attack because it's the only thing on hand, but being prepared and declaring the use of it to block prior to initiative means it's still a free action, but because it's not a typical shield object, the character suffers a -2CS penalty to all other FEATs that turn (to account for the awkwardness of trying to use the heavy metal disk).
• Impromptu chair block: let's assume the character was going to all out attack for the turn but then his opponent pulls out a knife. Making a successful Yellow Agility FEAT to change actions, the character decides to grab a nearby chair and use it as a shield from the dangerous bladed attack. Because this action was not planned at the start of the combat round, the character must use one of his standard combat actions (or the only one if he isn't capable of multiple actions). Additionally, whether the character has any actions remaining or not, all FEAT rolls for the round are at -2CS because the chair is not a standard shield object... so if the Judge calls for an Intuition FEAT, consider the character a little distracted by being forced to use this non-shield object to defend against an impending stab attack.
• Unexpected shield block? Captain America is separated from his shield and just trying to dodge enemy attacks. Seeing that Cap is in danger from an Ultron attack, Hawkeye recovers the shield and throws it to him. Captain America makes a successful Yellow Agility FEAT and changes his action from possible avoidance with a Dodge FEAT to the guaranteed success of blocking the attack with his indestructible shield... This will require him to also make a successful multiple attacks roll to have at least 2 actions: one to catch the incoming shield, and a second to use it to block the attack. Of course, Captain America has an Amazing Fighting and gets lucky enough to have 3 attacks... and then uses his third action hurl the shield at Ultron (at -3CS penalty... -1 for multiple actions, and -2CS for having declared a shield block after initiative was rolled).

heh, multiple versions of it out there...I used shielding from the advanced set though, like the above. However, under Cap's entry there is "Captain America uses this weapon as a shield, though he is still subject to the effects of Stuns and Slams while using it." & frankly, I'd expand this notion to mean yellow or red results (ie a successful "bulleye", "kill", etc, etc as potential bypassing for "shielding". The counter for cap is as mentioned: grapple (not a great way to attack in game, but hey) & especially GRAB vs the shield. Take it away from him (& use it vs him, or better still, get rid of it by tossing it in a river or off the rooftop you are fighting on, etc, because he is going to grab it back...)

I like the house rule/idea of yellow/red bypass, for shield users in advanced: it's a potent defense, even for folks you make up with lesser shields, be they an incredible material strength titanium steel alloy, magical shield of unearthly material strength, or whatever (at various power levels)

I think it should be a little more complicated than the enemy just getting a Yellow or Red FEAT. When Captain America fought Bullseye, he was able to deflect Bullseye's attacks in darkness and seemed like he could do so all night long. It wasn't until Bullseye tricked him by specifically throwing two things at once in an effort to force Cap to choose to open his defense up. He threw a shovel low and a flashlight up high. In the darkness, Cap could only see the flashlight so even if he heard the rush of air of something coming at him, he instinctively blocked for the threat that he could see and the shovel hit him in the leg.

TACTICS!

Streets of posion was pretty great. Was a change of pace, good cast of characters with some unusual ones for Cap, for that time, as well his standard rogues, of the day. Funny, too (Cap on drugs/roid raging).

[comicvine.gamespot.com]





but I think the shielding ruling is still a good one; in advanced they can be too good w/o the caveat. It's not just about Cap either, you see Spiderman with monstrous web shields way more in game than comics, and there are other shield users (even henchmen sometimes) & for made up characters, well, it's very effective, so there will be more still. I think it has to be less good than body armor of shield's material strength, although the whole "grab" bit will start to come up often in play.

Games never reallly run like their source materials