Recalling a discussion here about werewolves and their basic powers I remembered the issue of Jack Russel's wolf form having AM (50) Body Armor against anything but silver. Obviously Marvel was trying to show just how tough the Werewolf was. He has been shown to defeat Sabertooth and survive an encounter with Mr Fixit (Grey Hulk) with relative ease. However he has shown to take damage for far less serious threats, so what to do? How do you reflect that in game terms?

I decided to approach it this way. Werewolf by Night has Shift Z regeneration. He can recover 50 points of health a round, but will still take FULL damage from any attack. I think this reflects what we've seen in the comics in terms of game play.

What say you?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/12/2009 07:10PM by The Last Duskblade.

I think your on the right track- regen vs. armor thing.

even in some movies ( like the Monster Sqaud ) a stick of dynamite would severely " blow him up a bit" but he was shown to regenerate a great speed.

not so sure about Shift-Z but probably needs to be play-tested.--- could work.

What comic had WW v. ST?

Though I've not seen the issues where Werewolf faced off against Sabertooth, Mr. Fixit, or supposedly survived major explosions with minimal injury, I always felt the Amazing Body Armor vs. anything not magic / silver was a bit much..

My take on generic werewolves is in the Your Favorites section for perusal for any interested, though I'll admit that Jack Russell (terrier ) is likely a stronger than typical werewolf specimen... Just not Amazing Body Armor strong, IMO..

And I always felt the Monster Squad scene of Wolfman getting blown to pieces by dynamite and then pulling himself back together was extremely over the top.

Enhanced Regeneration for Russel's Werewolf forms sounds like a good way to go, though I'd personally likely not take it beyond Amazing rank, and I myself don't use the Rank/10 = Points Healed Per Round method... But that's just me..

I really don't see the problem with Werewolf having Amazing Body Armor, if you go by the full extension of 'Unharmed by anything but Silver or Magic' he'd have CL1000 protection from everything and be able to survive a nuclear detonation unscathed (something a few RPG have for both Vampires and Werewolves, like the Palladium system). It doesn't mean he can't be stunned or slammed or show outward signs of damage but he'd have no actual health loss or incapacitation.

As far as Monster Squad goes it was meant to be somewhat campy and Werewolf pulling together like that isn't unrealistic since that kind of thing has been shown to happen in some of the monster horror movies as well for more than just werewolves.

Joe Wrote:
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> What comic had WW v. ST?


Ive been trying to find it online but I cant. I think it was back in the mid to late 90s. It was an anthology book like Marvel Comics Presents or something like that. It went something like this. Jack is in a bar, thinking to himself how humans just seem like monkeys to him now. At this point he and the wolf are very intergrated personas. The he notices a "wolf amongst the sheep", Sabertooth. Sabertooth is chatting up a girl at the bar, he spots Jack and gives him a nod of recognition;one predator to another. Sabertooth takes the girl outside. Jack knows he's not going out for some loving. Outside Jack finds Sabertooth clawing tic tac toe into the girl's cheek, she pleads "help me" to Jack. Jack shifts to wolf man form. Sabertooth lets the girl go. Sabertooth talks some smack talking about how badass he is, and Jack should team up with him for some fun, or he'll just kill him. Jack goes full moon Werewolf on Sabertooth telling him that he's bigger, stronger and meaner that Sabertooth. There's a short fight and it looks like Jack is about to bite Saber's head off when the girl comes back shouting about the monster that was going to kill her, followed by angry bar patrons with guns. They shoot at the werewolf instead of Sabertooth and Jack leaves in disgust, perfectly willing to leave them all to the tender mercies of Sabertooth. Saber smiles as Jack flees into the woods.

Ok find it. Jack fought and nearly killed Sabertooth in Marvel Comics Presents No. 98 printed in 1992. There's even a copy for sale on ebay.

They also had a period where Jack encountered a group of more feral werewolves of a grungy sort during his 'merged' period who considered humans prey and had to deal with them although I can't remember it too clearly I think he eliminated most of them (other than like a female similar to how one of the Howling movies ended).

I remember those guys, they were called The Brain Eaters. They were biker werewolves. That was a cool story I thought, not a fan of the art though.

Considering That the Elder God Chthons Power Through the DarkHold Helped to Create the WereWolves,it is not Hard to Belive that WereWolf By Night would Have a High Level of Body Armour or Regeneration Powers.

Game wise, do you think Jack could take Creed?

Easily, at least while not a mindless beast as they like to return him to after also enjoying a 'merged Werewolf' storyarc. Jack's a superior predator all around and only being a predator with reason battling one without reason would give Creed any hope of winning. Remember that unless he shows up prepared Creed can't inflict any damage on Jack whereas Jack has no problems inflicting damage on Creed. If he can't find some silver or means of incapaciting or restraining Jack it's game over for Creed.

I don't think the Darkhold or Cthon were responsible for the creation of werewolves, just vampires. The werewolf curse was simply a latent item in the Russell family tree that exposure to the dark taint of the Darkhold activated in their bloodline. Once it was activated in the father it was passed down to the kids (although they quickly cured his sister of it after her curse activated on her birthday) although until they added in the biker werewolves I don't think they ever gave any evidence of Jack being able to curse others with lycanthropy, which considering how many people he's ripped up over the years is odd given the general nature of the curse.

I seem to Remember that The Darkhold has a Big Connection to Werewolves Nightmask,However I could Be Wrong.I will Have to Research this Some More Nightmask G1 Out.

Joe Wrote:
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> Game wise, do you think Jack could take Creed?



In the comic Jack shifted into his all the way into Full Moon werewolf state (with his human mind still in charge). In that for I think he would definatly take Creed down. In wolf man form, I'd say Creed has more than a fighting chance of winning.

In straight out game terms as laid out in the original TSR content, Sabertooth doesnt have a chance of winning without some silver on him. He just cant hurt the werewolf otherwise.

Nightmask Wrote:
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> I don't think the Darkhold or Cthon were
> responsible for the creation of werewolves, just
> vampires. The werewolf curse was simply a latent
> item in the Russell family tree that exposure to
> the dark taint of the Darkhold activated in their
> bloodline. Once it was activated in the father it
> was passed down to the kids (although they quickly
> cured his sister of it after her curse activated
> on her birthday) although until they added in the
> biker werewolves I don't think they ever gave any
> evidence of Jack being able to curse others with
> lycanthropy, which considering how many people
> he's ripped up over the years is odd given the
> general nature of the curse.



Actually Jack's lycanthropy comes from an ancestor named Grigori. Grigori first brought the supernatural curse of lycanthropy upon the family in 1795. He tried to rescue his wife Louisa from Dracula and was bitten by a female werewolf after he had staked both Dracula and his wife (now a vampire). He went to rescue a seemingly normal woman from a cell, but she turned into a werewolf and bit him. Generations later Jack would battle Dracula himself as a werewolf.

I had this comic when I was a kid. My folks got me a special version that came witha 45" record on which the entire comic was voice acted. It was the coolest thing I owned at the time. I remember playing the record on my Fisher Price record player and following along with the comic. Jeez when was that? The early 70's I think.

Also there is a demon responsible for the creation of werewolves, and its not Chthon, but it is related to him. It was in a relatively recent issue of the Mavel Handbook. Ah ok I found it in one of my comic boxes. OHMU: Marvel Zombies: The Book of Angels Demons and Various Monsters 2007.

"Werewolves are distant relatives of the Wolf-Men, the lupine humanoid decendants of the ancient Wolf God/Demon Varcolac, the spawn of the elder god Chthon."

Your actually both right. Jacks ancestor, Grigori did contract lycanthorpy but it was passed through later generations in a dormant state. A later descendant, Jack's father, did not manifest the curse until he had come into contact with the Darkhold. He then passed the curse onto his children.

omg I actually remember that record thing. It scared the hell outta me as a little kid (4-6 yrs old).

So have they explained why Jack keeps loosing control of the wolf aspect? He's gained and lost control of the form so many times so far.

First he could only control the Wolf-man form on nights NOT the full moon.

Then, after the Brain-Eaters, he merged with the wolf aspect. He had More of the man in his wolf form, but now also more Wolf in his Human form (hence the "naked monkeys" thing).

Then I heard something about this demon werewolf thing? Could I get some background on that cause, evidently, I missed something.

And are we even remotely discussing the Earth-X explanation? Cause that will just make it all so much more confusing.

Back to OP:

I would honestly give Jack a low level of invulnerability. Yes i know the amount of hell TI causes, but if you want to simulate big effects that reasonably SHOULD do damage but not a lot it's really the only way to go.

Jack's suffered from the same thing nearly all characters with a disability has, namely being 'reset' to the angsty 'oh the horror of my existence how shall I continue on?' status no matter what events occur to remove that limitation. Permanent growth is never allowed save in a few rare cases otherwise they get screwed over by lazy writers wanting to rehash old plots from 5, 10, or 20+ years ago for newer readers. Same thing has happened to the Hulk with the elimination of the Merged Hulk with a seriously flawed retcon that introduced things that contradicted the actual material related to the merging (having Samson claiming he planned things to create a Professor Hulk when the issue clearly shows what happens to be totally out of his control), and even Spider-man wasn't safe from it thanks to the quesada demon deal. Morbius suffered the same fate after finally curing himself during the 1st run of the She-Hulk after he helped fix her own cellular instability that was going to kill her eventually.

Sounds like a bad dungeon scene in a D&D game... 'You go into the cell and release the crying woman? Okay as you release her she suddenly rips out of her clothes as she morphs into a werewolf and bites you due to surprise! Now roll for initiative.'

Ahh yes the old days of the comics that came with a record, got to miss those. I've one for a character that probably one-shotted named Holo-Man (had light-based powers naturally).