Hi folks,

As a longtime fan of the ever-lovin' blue eyed Thing, I've always been bothered by the Strength score for his non-spiky/traditional form. According to the Advanced Judges Book (p. 5), Monstrous strength caps off at 80 tons maximum. That's all fine and well, except according to the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe #11 from 1983, Ben can lift up to 85 tons. He certainly didn't get weaker between 1983 and 1986, so I believe his Strength stat should be adjusted and increased. I propose that his Strength score be adjusted to Monstrous (85) to reflect how close he is to qualifying for the Unearthly category (88 being the magic number).

Actually, it works just fine. Monstrous Strength is 80 tons, but with a Red FEAT he can lift as if his Strength was Unearthly. It's a maximum effort moment, but it means that technically Monstrous Strength characters can top out in that 100 ton range while Unearthly characters can exceed that with a Red FEAT.

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Thrudjelmer
Actually, it works just fine. Monstrous Strength is 80 tons, but with a Red FEAT he can lift as if his Strength was Unearthly. It's a maximum effort moment, but it means that technically Monstrous Strength characters can top out in that 100 ton range while Unearthly characters can exceed that with a Red FEAT.

With a lifting capacity of 85 tons, I would be inclined to say that lifting 80 tons would be a Green FEAT for ol' Ben. Having been trapped under more than my share of barbells over the years, I know how much a difference even something as small as a 10 lb difference would make. Lifting 5 tons over the cap is pretty significant. While it's not enough to warrant a move to Unearthly, a change in his base Monstrous score seems pretty reasonable to me. Keeping at the base 75 doesn't reflect his Strength.

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Captain Knucklehead

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Thrudjelmer
Actually, it works just fine. Monstrous Strength is 80 tons, but with a Red FEAT he can lift as if his Strength was Unearthly. It's a maximum effort moment, but it means that technically Monstrous Strength characters can top out in that 100 ton range while Unearthly characters can exceed that with a Red FEAT.

With a lifting capacity of 85 tons, I would be inclined to say that lifting 80 tons would be a Green FEAT for ol' Ben. Having been trapped under more than my share of barbells over the years, I know how much a difference even something as small as a 10 lb difference would make. Lifting 5 tons over the cap is pretty significant. While it's not enough to warrant a move to Unearthly, a change in his base Monstrous score seems pretty reasonable to me. Keeping at the base 75 doesn't reflect his Strength.

Being just a few tons from his max he certainly wouldn't be lifting 80tons on something as easy as a Green feat, that would have to be at least a yellow feat.

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Nightmask

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Captain Knucklehead

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Thrudjelmer
Actually, it works just fine. Monstrous Strength is 80 tons, but with a Red FEAT he can lift as if his Strength was Unearthly. It's a maximum effort moment, but it means that technically Monstrous Strength characters can top out in that 100 ton range while Unearthly characters can exceed that with a Red FEAT.

With a lifting capacity of 85 tons, I would be inclined to say that lifting 80 tons would be a Green FEAT for ol' Ben. Having been trapped under more than my share of barbells over the years, I know how much a difference even something as small as a 10 lb difference would make. Lifting 5 tons over the cap is pretty significant. While it's not enough to warrant a move to Unearthly, a change in his base Monstrous score seems pretty reasonable to me. Keeping at the base 75 doesn't reflect his Strength.

Being just a few tons from his max he certainly wouldn't be lifting 80tons on something as easy as a Green feat, that would have to be at least a yellow feat.

It's not really that different from someone with Incredible Strength needing a Green FEAT to lift 1 ton. After all, 1 ton is "just a few tons" from the Incredible strength max.

According to the MarvelWikia site, the Earth-616 version of the Thing is now listed as having Class 100 strength, which further bolsters my original contention that Ben's Strength rating should be updated.

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Captain Knucklehead
According to the MarvelWikia site, the Earth-616 version of the Thing is now listed as having Class 100 strength, which further bolsters my original contention that Ben's Strength rating should be updated.

It's Unearthly now. Ben's an expert fighter ( Incredible level ). This combined with his talents of Wrestling and Martial Arts B means he can hold his own with the best Marvel U has in hand to hand combat with no weapons. For a tank like character, he has a pretty high amount of karma to spend ( 50 points ) if needed.

Marvel should have its own strongman competition. Arm Wrestling, Lifting, and hitting a punching machine. Fans would rant and rave about the results.

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Taarna

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Captain Knucklehead
According to the MarvelWikia site, the Earth-616 version of the Thing is now listed as having Class 100 strength, which further bolsters my original contention that Ben's Strength rating should be updated.

It's Unearthly now. Ben's an expert fighter ( Incredible level ). This combined with his talents of Wrestling and Martial Arts B means he can hold his own with the best Marvel U has in hand to hand combat with no weapons. For a tank like character, he has a pretty high amount of karma to spend ( 50 points ) if needed.

Marvel should have its own strongman competition. Arm Wrestling, Lifting, and hitting a punching machine. Fans would rant and rave about the results.

They did have a Marvel Olympics style event in the past. One can read up on it at The Appendix to the Handbook of the Marvel Universe.
Super Olympics

* Check out the powerlift event

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Necromancer
They did have a Marvel Olympics style event in the past. One can read up on it at The Appendix to the Handbook of the Marvel Universe.

Read up on it at the Appendix... or, you know, dig out my collection of Marvel Swimsuit issues.

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Thrudjelmer

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Necromancer
They did have a Marvel Olympics style event in the past. One can read up on it at The Appendix to the Handbook of the Marvel Universe.

Read up on it at the Appendix... or, you know, dig out my collection of Marvel Swimsuit issues.

Well, unless you are sharing a PDF, I guess anyone interested can read up on it at the Appendix.

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Captain Knucklehead

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Nightmask

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Captain Knucklehead

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Thrudjelmer
Actually, it works just fine. Monstrous Strength is 80 tons, but with a Red FEAT he can lift as if his Strength was Unearthly. It's a maximum effort moment, but it means that technically Monstrous Strength characters can top out in that 100 ton range while Unearthly characters can exceed that with a Red FEAT.

With a lifting capacity of 85 tons, I would be inclined to say that lifting 80 tons would be a Green FEAT for ol' Ben. Having been trapped under more than my share of barbells over the years, I know how much a difference even something as small as a 10 lb difference would make. Lifting 5 tons over the cap is pretty significant. While it's not enough to warrant a move to Unearthly, a change in his base Monstrous score seems pretty reasonable to me. Keeping at the base 75 doesn't reflect his Strength.

Being just a few tons from his max he certainly wouldn't be lifting 80tons on something as easy as a Green feat, that would have to be at least a yellow feat.

It's not really that different from someone with Incredible Strength needing a Green FEAT to lift 1 ton. After all, 1 ton is "just a few tons" from the Incredible strength max.

Except that there's a major difference percentage-wise between 1 ton and 10 tons compared to 80 tons vs 85 tons. 1 ton isn't very close to the 10 ton limit on the one whereas 80 tons is VERY close to the 85 ton limit.

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Nightmask

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Captain Knucklehead

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Nightmask

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Captain Knucklehead

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Thrudjelmer
Actually, it works just fine. Monstrous Strength is 80 tons, but with a Red FEAT he can lift as if his Strength was Unearthly. It's a maximum effort moment, but it means that technically Monstrous Strength characters can top out in that 100 ton range while Unearthly characters can exceed that with a Red FEAT.

With a lifting capacity of 85 tons, I would be inclined to say that lifting 80 tons would be a Green FEAT for ol' Ben. Having been trapped under more than my share of barbells over the years, I know how much a difference even something as small as a 10 lb difference would make. Lifting 5 tons over the cap is pretty significant. While it's not enough to warrant a move to Unearthly, a change in his base Monstrous score seems pretty reasonable to me. Keeping at the base 75 doesn't reflect his Strength.

Being just a few tons from his max he certainly wouldn't be lifting 80tons on something as easy as a Green feat, that would have to be at least a yellow feat.

It's not really that different from someone with Incredible Strength needing a Green FEAT to lift 1 ton. After all, 1 ton is "just a few tons" from the Incredible strength max.

Except that there's a major difference percentage-wise between 1 ton and 10 tons compared to 80 tons vs 85 tons. 1 ton isn't very close to the 10 ton limit on the one whereas 80 tons is VERY close to the 85 ton limit.

Tell me, at what point would you change the ranks or the base rank numbers? At 86 tons? 90 tons? 95 tons?

At this point, I'm satisfied that the current, non-spiky incarnation of the Thing should have Unearthly Strength based on his Class 100 rating.

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Captain Knucklehead

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Nightmask

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Captain Knucklehead

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Nightmask

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Captain Knucklehead

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Thrudjelmer
Actually, it works just fine. Monstrous Strength is 80 tons, but with a Red FEAT he can lift as if his Strength was Unearthly. It's a maximum effort moment, but it means that technically Monstrous Strength characters can top out in that 100 ton range while Unearthly characters can exceed that with a Red FEAT.

With a lifting capacity of 85 tons, I would be inclined to say that lifting 80 tons would be a Green FEAT for ol' Ben. Having been trapped under more than my share of barbells over the years, I know how much a difference even something as small as a 10 lb difference would make. Lifting 5 tons over the cap is pretty significant. While it's not enough to warrant a move to Unearthly, a change in his base Monstrous score seems pretty reasonable to me. Keeping at the base 75 doesn't reflect his Strength.

Being just a few tons from his max he certainly wouldn't be lifting 80tons on something as easy as a Green feat, that would have to be at least a yellow feat.

It's not really that different from someone with Incredible Strength needing a Green FEAT to lift 1 ton. After all, 1 ton is "just a few tons" from the Incredible strength max.

Except that there's a major difference percentage-wise between 1 ton and 10 tons compared to 80 tons vs 85 tons. 1 ton isn't very close to the 10 ton limit on the one whereas 80 tons is VERY close to the 85 ton limit.

Tell me, at what point would you change the ranks or the base rank numbers? At 86 tons? 90 tons? 95 tons?

At this point, I'm satisfied that the current, non-spiky incarnation of the Thing should have Unearthly Strength based on his Class 100 rating.

I'm fine with things where they are, they don't need changing, although if I ran a more modern game I'd naturally have to up Thing's strength to match his current abilities instead of his classic era levels.

I say a Worlds Strongest Hero competition! Like the Worlds Strongest Man one on TV!

Sounds like a good way to start an argument to me.

There are a few rules that should be hashed out; Just Humans/Terrans or aliens of all type? I think just Terrans myself. With Space God's thrown in, it gets...unwieldy.

A character that's always been wrongly stated as far as I'm concerned is Sasquatch - in one of his earlier appearances, he fought Thing, and Thing kept thinking to himself how much stronger Sasquatch was. I've also seen Sasquatch pick up the end of cargo ship. I'd go so far as to say Sasquatch should have Sh-X strength.

Wonder Man was originally supposed to be strong enough to fight all of the Avengers - over time, it was eventually concluded that Thor was slightly stronger.

Another contender would be Gilgamesh/Forgotten One. He's went toe-to-toe with Thor on more than one occasion. Easily a 100 ton-er.

And Hercules of course. His name is synonymous with Strength.

I agree with Thrujelmer on this one. For someone that can lift 85 tons, Monstrous (80 tons -ish) is closer than Unearthly (100 tons -ish).
If you look at the reasoning behind the ranks, Unearthly is pretty much the maximum for PCs (and a vast majority of NPCs)- any NPCs above that are cosmic beings ("Hello, mortals I can lift geologic formations- like mountains or supertankers!"). So Monstrous is really for serious bruisers (Thing, Colossus) but not the god-like, hard to put into words, edge of the scale (like Hulk, Thor, and Hercules).

I'm not sure how many of you have run across this particular site, but the author has done a far more detailed analysis of Ben's actual strength level than I've found anywhere else. I'm now thoroughly convinced he should have Unearthly strength, even in the "classic era," though he would restrict his slugfest-style damage to Monstrous.

How Strong Is the Thing?

I have been thinking recently that it makes a lot of sense to keep classic stats within the established parameters (like the Things Monstrous strength) but simply increase the specific number within that range. I don't think I've ever seen a write-up (I'm sure they exist) that gives the Thing, Monstrous (87) Strength, or the Hulk, Unearthly (125) Strength.

This sort of plays into my pet peeve about using Shift levels as base stats. I get why it's done, but if all possible I like to keep the Shift levels as intended: temporary boosts just below uber-cosmic level that allow certain heavy-hitter heroes/villains to reach godlike levels for short duration's. I'd much rather stat Superman as having Unearthly (125) Strength, for instance, rather than giving him Shift X Strength. It illustrates that he's a bit stronger than the Hulk and Thor, at least at base level, but he's still in the Unearthly range. Just a few thoughts.

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NowhereMan
I have been thinking recently that it makes a lot of sense to keep classic stats within the established parameters (like the Things Monstrous strength) but simply increase the specific number within that range. I don't think I've ever seen a write-up (I'm sure they exist) that gives the Thing, Monstrous (87) Strength, or the Hulk, Unearthly (125) Strength.

This sort of plays into my pet peeve about using Shift levels as base stats. I get why it's done, but if all possible I like to keep the Shift levels as intended: temporary boosts just below uber-cosmic level that allow certain heavy-hitter heroes/villains to reach godlike levels for short duration's. I'd much rather stat Superman as having Unearthly (125) Strength, for instance, rather than giving him Shift X Strength. It illustrates that he's a bit stronger than the Hulk and Thor, at least at base level, but he's still in the Unearthly range. Just a few thoughts.

Actually, those write ups with Advanced set ranks use to be quite common. Thing had MN (85) Strength as it took a benchmark of 90 tons to qualify for UN (100) Strength under the rules. Hulk just made the cut with his base line strength of UN (90). Abomination, the mightiest mortal walking the Earth weighed in at UN (100) tons. Thor weighed in at UN(95) tons and Juggernaut came in at Hulk's baseline with UN (90) tons.


These stats are not typically used as most people who do write ups prefer to use the Revised Basic set statistics (whether they realize it or not) to stay consistent with established write ups from official sources. Also, when the game was first published the information for the write ups was based on the original Marvel Handbooks. That was 33 years ago....

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Necromancer

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NowhereMan
I have been thinking recently that it makes a lot of sense to keep classic stats within the established parameters (like the Things Monstrous strength) but simply increase the specific number within that range. I don't think I've ever seen a write-up (I'm sure they exist) that gives the Thing, Monstrous (87) Strength, or the Hulk, Unearthly (125) Strength.

This sort of plays into my pet peeve about using Shift levels as base stats. I get why it's done, but if all possible I like to keep the Shift levels as intended: temporary boosts just below uber-cosmic level that allow certain heavy-hitter heroes/villains to reach godlike levels for short duration's. I'd much rather stat Superman as having Unearthly (125) Strength, for instance, rather than giving him Shift X Strength. It illustrates that he's a bit stronger than the Hulk and Thor, at least at base level, but he's still in the Unearthly range. Just a few thoughts.

Actually, those write ups with Advanced set ranks use to be quite common. Thing had MN (85) Strength as it took a benchmark of 90 tons to qualify for UN (100) Strength under the rules. Hulk just made the cut with his base line strength of UN (90). Abomination, the mightiest mortal walking the Earth weighed in at UN (100) tons. Thor weighed in at UN(95) tons and Juggernaut came in at Hulk's baseline with UN (90) tons.


These stats are not typically used as most people who do write ups prefer to use the Revised Basic set statistics (whether they realize it or not) to stay consistent with established write ups from official sources. Also, when the game was first published the information for the write ups was based on the original Marvel Handbooks. That was 33 years ago....

I've never seen an "official" write-up of the Hulk at UN (90) or the Thing at MN (85). I do know that some write-up's meant to show the Hulk in his very earliest appearances (when he was a founding Avenger, etc.) has his base strength at MN (75) but I don't think I've ever seen an official stat that used anything beyond the base ranks for ability ranks for any character. That is every then "current" write-up for Thor, Hulk, Juggernaut, etc., list them as UN (100) strength. Just to be clear, are you talking about fan-made write-ups?

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NowhereMan

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Necromancer

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NowhereMan
I have been thinking recently that it makes a lot of sense to keep classic stats within the established parameters (like the Things Monstrous strength) but simply increase the specific number within that range. I don't think I've ever seen a write-up (I'm sure they exist) that gives the Thing, Monstrous (87) Strength, or the Hulk, Unearthly (125) Strength.

This sort of plays into my pet peeve about using Shift levels as base stats. I get why it's done, but if all possible I like to keep the Shift levels as intended: temporary boosts just below uber-cosmic level that allow certain heavy-hitter heroes/villains to reach godlike levels for short duration's. I'd much rather stat Superman as having Unearthly (125) Strength, for instance, rather than giving him Shift X Strength. It illustrates that he's a bit stronger than the Hulk and Thor, at least at base level, but he's still in the Unearthly range. Just a few thoughts.

Actually, those write ups with Advanced set ranks use to be quite common. Thing had MN (85) Strength as it took a benchmark of 90 tons to qualify for UN (100) Strength under the rules. Hulk just made the cut with his base line strength of UN (90). Abomination, the mightiest mortal walking the Earth weighed in at UN (100) tons. Thor weighed in at UN(95) tons and Juggernaut came in at Hulk's baseline with UN (90) tons.


These stats are not typically used as most people who do write ups prefer to use the Revised Basic set statistics (whether they realize it or not) to stay consistent with established write ups from official sources. Also, when the game was first published the information for the write ups was based on the original Marvel Handbooks. That was 33 years ago....

I've never seen an "official" write-up of the Hulk at UN (90) or the Thing at MN (85). I do know that some write-up's meant to show the Hulk in his very earliest appearances (when he was a founding Avenger, etc.) has his base strength at MN (75) but I don't think I've ever seen an official stat that used anything beyond the base ranks for ability ranks for any character. That is every then "current" write-up for Thor, Hulk, Juggernaut, etc., list them as UN (100) strength. Just to be clear, are you talking about fan-made write-ups?

Yes fan write ups. I thought I mentioned that the basic ranks were use universally to stay concurrent with the official products.

I believe it's briefly mentioned in the Advanced Set that published heroes get the average numbers because they've been around awhile to build up, whereas player created characters start at the bottom of a rank and work their way up. Players can also exceed the average stats as they progress, but published heroes generally stay the same over time until something transformative happens in the comics to justify a new rank.

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Necromancer

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NowhereMan

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Necromancer

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NowhereMan
I have been thinking recently that it makes a lot of sense to keep classic stats within the established parameters (like the Things Monstrous strength) but simply increase the specific number within that range. I don't think I've ever seen a write-up (I'm sure they exist) that gives the Thing, Monstrous (87) Strength, or the Hulk, Unearthly (125) Strength.

This sort of plays into my pet peeve about using Shift levels as base stats. I get why it's done, but if all possible I like to keep the Shift levels as intended: temporary boosts just below uber-cosmic level that allow certain heavy-hitter heroes/villains to reach godlike levels for short duration's. I'd much rather stat Superman as having Unearthly (125) Strength, for instance, rather than giving him Shift X Strength. It illustrates that he's a bit stronger than the Hulk and Thor, at least at base level, but he's still in the Unearthly range. Just a few thoughts.

Actually, those write ups with Advanced set ranks use to be quite common. Thing had MN (85) Strength as it took a benchmark of 90 tons to qualify for UN (100) Strength under the rules. Hulk just made the cut with his base line strength of UN (90). Abomination, the mightiest mortal walking the Earth weighed in at UN (100) tons. Thor weighed in at UN(95) tons and Juggernaut came in at Hulk's baseline with UN (90) tons.


These stats are not typically used as most people who do write ups prefer to use the Revised Basic set statistics (whether they realize it or not) to stay consistent with established write ups from official sources. Also, when the game was first published the information for the write ups was based on the original Marvel Handbooks. That was 33 years ago....

I've never seen an "official" write-up of the Hulk at UN (90) or the Thing at MN (85). I do know that some write-up's meant to show the Hulk in his very earliest appearances (when he was a founding Avenger, etc.) has his base strength at MN (75) but I don't think I've ever seen an official stat that used anything beyond the base ranks for ability ranks for any character. That is every then "current" write-up for Thor, Hulk, Juggernaut, etc., list them as UN (100) strength. Just to be clear, are you talking about fan-made write-ups?

Yes fan write ups. I thought I mentioned that the basic ranks were use universally to stay concurrent with the official products.

I gotcha. It's an interesting idea as a way to keep the heavy hitters in the same category but at the same time show who is slightly stronger on the base level...but I personally couldn't give the Hulk or Thor anything less than UN (100) That said, I do like the idea of giving certain DC characters (like Superman or Captain Marvel) higher base scores (Say UN (120) Strength) instead of given them Shift X.

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Thrudjelmer
I believe it's briefly mentioned in the Advanced Set that published heroes get the average numbers because they've been around awhile to build up, whereas player created characters start at the bottom of a rank and work their way up. Players can also exceed the average stats as they progress, but published heroes generally stay the same over time until something transformative happens in the comics to justify a new rank.

Correct. I suppose the Advance rules also did that to allow players playing established heroes to still have the opportunity to use the advancement rules, as opposed to completely maxing out each stat for the iconic characters.

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NowhereMan

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Thrudjelmer
I believe it's briefly mentioned in the Advanced Set that published heroes get the average numbers because they've been around awhile to build up, whereas player created characters start at the bottom of a rank and work their way up. Players can also exceed the average stats as they progress, but published heroes generally stay the same over time until something transformative happens in the comics to justify a new rank.

Correct. I suppose the Advance rules also did that to allow players playing established heroes to still have the opportunity to use the advancement rules, as opposed to completely maxing out each stat for the iconic characters.

Well--the Thing is immortal, so he does not age, and retains all things needed, ( pun intended ) to stay young, and build muscle, with workouts to become stronger.

In theory, he can work his way up to the shift X level, but I think he's fine at Unearthly.

One thing ( okay last pun ) I never liked was Marvel almost always made the stronger character win in their mono y mono matches. It's not that way in real life. Okay, there are weight classes in combat sports, but variables such as skills, and durability matter. The physically stronger of the two does not always win. The guy who hits and lands most often usually does.

With Incredible level fighting, complimented by the excellent combination of Martial Arts B, and Wrestling, the Thing at upper limit of Monstrous level Strength often held his own, with heroes and villains like say the Hulk but seldom won even if he was the better fighter, and smarter / more experienced of the two.

I don't read comics anymore, but now at the Unearthly level has the Things battles with characters who used to be stronger than him but not have the same power rank, changed at all in terms of the outcomes?

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Taarna

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NowhereMan

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Thrudjelmer
I believe it's briefly mentioned in the Advanced Set that published heroes get the average numbers because they've been around awhile to build up, whereas player created characters start at the bottom of a rank and work their way up. Players can also exceed the average stats as they progress, but published heroes generally stay the same over time until something transformative happens in the comics to justify a new rank.

Correct. I suppose the Advance rules also did that to allow players playing established heroes to still have the opportunity to use the advancement rules, as opposed to completely maxing out each stat for the iconic characters.

Well--the Thing is immortal, so he does not age, and retains all things needed, ( pun intended ) to stay young, and build muscle, with workouts to become stronger.

In theory, he can work his way up to the shift X level, but I think he's fine at Unearthly.

One thing ( okay last pun ) I never liked was Marvel almost always made the stronger character win in their mono y mono matches. It's not that way in real life. Okay, there are weight classes in combat sports, but variables such as skills, and durability matter. The physically stronger of the two does not always win. The guy who hits and lands most often usually does.

With Incredible level fighting, complimented by the excellent combination of Martial Arts B, and Wrestling, the Thing at upper limit of Monstrous level Strength often held his own, with heroes and villains like say the Hulk but seldom won even if he was the better fighter, and smarter / more experienced of the two.

I don't read comics anymore, but now at the Unearthly level has the Things battles with characters who used to be stronger than him but not have the same power rank, changed at all in terms of the outcomes?

I've always been bothered by Marvel's propensity to treat Ben like the universe's "jobber." For those unfamiliar with pro wrestling terminology, a jobber is a wrestler whose "job" it is to showcase the talents, skills, etc. of the new, up and coming wrestler. Jobbers essentially tease the audience that they're going to win, but ultimately end up losing in the end. That's pretty much the role Marvel's used Ben for over decades now. New characters seem to be gauged based on how well/easily they dispatch the Thing. Unfortunately, this still proves to be the rule more than the exception.

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Captain Knucklehead

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Taarna

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NowhereMan

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Thrudjelmer
I believe it's briefly mentioned in the Advanced Set that published heroes get the average numbers because they've been around awhile to build up, whereas player created characters start at the bottom of a rank and work their way up. Players can also exceed the average stats as they progress, but published heroes generally stay the same over time until something transformative happens in the comics to justify a new rank.

Correct. I suppose the Advance rules also did that to allow players playing established heroes to still have the opportunity to use the advancement rules, as opposed to completely maxing out each stat for the iconic characters.

Well--the Thing is immortal, so he does not age, and retains all things needed, ( pun intended ) to stay young, and build muscle, with workouts to become stronger.

In theory, he can work his way up to the shift X level, but I think he's fine at Unearthly.

One thing ( okay last pun ) I never liked was Marvel almost always made the stronger character win in their mono y mono matches. It's not that way in real life. Okay, there are weight classes in combat sports, but variables such as skills, and durability matter. The physically stronger of the two does not always win. The guy who hits and lands most often usually does.

With Incredible level fighting, complimented by the excellent combination of Martial Arts B, and Wrestling, the Thing at upper limit of Monstrous level Strength often held his own, with heroes and villains like say the Hulk but seldom won even if he was the better fighter, and smarter / more experienced of the two.

I don't read comics anymore, but now at the Unearthly level has the Things battles with characters who used to be stronger than him but not have the same power rank, changed at all in terms of the outcomes?

I've always been bothered by Marvel's propensity to treat Ben like the universe's "jobber." For those unfamiliar with pro wrestling terminology, a jobber is a wrestler whose "job" it is to showcase the talents, skills, etc. of the new, up and coming wrestler. Jobbers essentially tease the audience that they're going to win, but ultimately end up losing in the end. That's pretty much the role Marvel's used Ben for over decades now. New characters seem to be gauged based on how well/easily they dispatch the Thing. Unfortunately, this still proves to be the rule more than the exception.

I think Marvel made the Thing just below the level of a extremely powerful super hero. The type that goes solo and faces his own greatest threats like Hulk, Thor, Doctor Strange, and the Silver Surfer alone. When you hit the Unearthly power levels, do you really need a group to defeat most earth level type of threats? Not really.

But that was than and this is now. At the Unearthly level, the Thing should be able to hold his own. No longer a " jobber ", he's the main attraction that should be able to win or lose his share vs those who have bettered him in the past. I also think he's the better fighter than most who have Unearthly level strength.

On a side note I have not read comics in 20+ years but I do recall the Thing using his wrestling moves on the Hulk with good success, and him being the champion of Marvel's Unlimited Class Wrestling Federation.

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Captain Knucklehead
I'm not sure how many of you have run across this particular site, but the author has done a far more detailed analysis of Ben's actual strength level than I've found anywhere else. I'm now thoroughly convinced he should have Unearthly strength, even in the "classic era," though he would restrict his slugfest-style damage to Monstrous.

How Strong Is the Thing?

I've read this article you posted in the past, finding it most interesting. While I do think the current Thing rates Unearthly strength, he's not exactly as strong as the current Hulk who is way stronger than a hundred tons.

I agree, Ben isn't as strong as the Hulk. I still remember seeing that Secret Wars image of the Hulk holding up a mountain over the downed heroes, but that being said, he's clearly much stronger than the game stats would have people believe. If people are hellbent on keeping him in the Monstrous tier, then I still believe he should be sitting at Monstrous (85) at a minimum. If I were running a game using the FF, ol' Ben would definitely be upgraded to Unearthly, though.

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Screaming Dean

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Captain Knucklehead
I'm not sure how many of you have run across this particular site, but the author has done a far more detailed analysis of Ben's actual strength level than I've found anywhere else. I'm now thoroughly convinced he should have Unearthly strength, even in the "classic era," though he would restrict his slugfest-style damage to Monstrous.

How Strong Is the Thing?

I've read this article you posted in the past, finding it most interesting. While I do think the current Thing rates Unearthly strength, he's not exactly as strong as the current Hulk who is way stronger than a hundred tons.

It could be useful to apply Talents to Strength as well.
There is a difference between an untrained but naturally immensely strong creature like the Hulk and an athlete ex-jock who deliberately weight lifts and uses scientific approaches to fighting and weightlifting like the Thing.
Talents that add a +1CS to Strength checks when deadlifting, that sort of thing. Bit like Martial Arts only for fetching, carrying, lifting and throwing heavy oversized objects.