I've been playing around with rules for extras or 'Mooks' as they are sometimes known. Y'know, the goons that heroes take out in one punch, the speed bumps on the way to dealing with the big bad. The system I've been using works as follows:

Minion
Automatically suffers the worst possible result on stun, slam and kill rolls. Cannot spend karma.

Villain
Can't spend karma on stun slam and kill rolls. Otherwise follows normal rules.

Supervillain
Follows the normal rules for all characters. Any named bad guy from a marvel supplement should follow these rules.

It's working pretty well so far. Thoughts?

I can understand that. I'm not 100% on the auto stun-slam result for minions though... but I can certainly see why you adopt it. Last nights game I had a bunch of low level ninjas that were simply not dropping fast enough; and that rule would have taken care of them much faster and made for a more entertaining fight seen in that case...

However I want to keep the threat level 'minions class' ninjas (what one of my players lovingly referred to as 'Ninja-geddon') a bit higher. I think if my low level ninja all drop in a single punch they will be far less fear inducing. At the moment the players are all nicely paranoid about the prospect of being caught alone in a dark alley by a dozen or so Ninja assassins...

I think I like the minions receiving worst possible with stun and slam.
But, I think with kill results it should be best result instead of worst. After all, we don't want our heroes losing all their hard earned karma over a lowly minion getting killed because its rules say it has to die.

NikMak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can understand that. I'm not 100% on the auto
> stun-slam result for minions though... but I can
> certainly see why you adopt it. Last nights game
> I had a bunch of low level ninjas that were simply
> not dropping fast enough; and that rule would have
> taken care of them much faster and made for a more
> entertaining fight seen in that case...
>
> However I want to keep the threat level 'minions
> class' ninjas (what one of my players lovingly
> referred to as 'Ninja-geddon') a bit higher. I
> think if my low level ninja all drop in a single
> punch they will be far less fear inducing. At the
> moment the players are all nicely paranoid about
> the prospect of being caught alone in a dark alley
> by a dozen or so Ninja assassins...


Maybe consider your average ninja to be in the mid-category of villain. That way, they don't automatically drop, but they still have restriction on Karma usage. Only the most novice of ninjas would be minions.

The problem with the minion thing is that not all minions are created equal. Typical mob thugs and ninja warriors are notably different in training and, one would imagine, survivability in combat situations. On the other hand, different supervillains may have different levels of minion. Thanos's minions would be a lot heartier than the Kingpin's... and if Doctor Doom leads a group of C-list supervillains as his minions, do they suddenly become more inept and easier to slam and stun for being minions or would they retain their own supervillain status?

Thrudjelmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NikMak Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I can understand that. I'm not 100% on the
> auto
> > stun-slam result for minions though... but I
> can
> > certainly see why you adopt it. Last nights
> game
> > I had a bunch of low level ninjas that were
> simply
> > not dropping fast enough; and that rule would
> have
> > taken care of them much faster and made for a
> more
> > entertaining fight seen in that case...
> >
> > However I want to keep the threat level
> 'minions
> > class' ninjas (what one of my players lovingly
> > referred to as 'Ninja-geddon') a bit higher. I
> > think if my low level ninja all drop in a
> single
> > punch they will be far less fear inducing. At
> the
> > moment the players are all nicely paranoid
> about
> > the prospect of being caught alone in a dark
> alley
> > by a dozen or so Ninja assassins...
>
>
> Maybe consider your average ninja to be in the
> mid-category of villain. That way, they don't
> automatically drop, but they still have
> restriction on Karma usage. Only the most novice
> of ninjas would be minions.
>
> The problem with the minion thing is that not all
> minions are created equal. Typical mob thugs and
> ninja warriors are notably different in training
> and, one would imagine, survivability in combat
> situations. On the other hand, different
> supervillains may have different levels of minion.
> Thanos's minions would be a lot heartier than the
> Kingpin's... and if Doctor Doom leads a group of
> C-list supervillains as his minions, do they
> suddenly become more inept and easier to slam and
> stun for being minions or would they retain their
> own supervillain status?


maybe. Im happy sticking with things as they are for now, in large part because my PCs should have a better idea of how hard they can hit the mook-ninjas now. Having had more time to think it through, the players were - quite rightly - pulling their punches more than was needed in the fight to avoid accidentally killing the bad guys. Several of the PCs have the ability to inflict damage at Amazing or Monstrous and they were only inflicting 20 point hits with each attack.

I will see how the next ninja battle goes, and then if its taking too long ask the players if they want to keep the system as is, or change it inline with XSE's suggestion

Another option - treat lowlies as one amorphous monster with collective hit points, a sort of macroscopic swarm. Individuals may go down hard or still stand but overall the "group" or swarm is being wiped out. Once the COLLECTIVE Health drops due to a stun result etc. they're all beaten.

Useful if you have a mass attack power too, treat the swarm of minions as a single monster or villain - a stun result flattens the whole mass of them and bell curve out the results insuring non are lethal - a small number are out cold for days, a small number are unhurt but hampered by the others, most are groggy and inactive.

Cap does this in the films A LOT.

Ditto Hulk in comics and film - area effect attack, mass of beings all go down the same way.

How to stat a mass of minions operating collectively?

I would take the stats of the average minion and give the collective group +1CS to all of them for the cooperative effort, and it would have a Health score equal to all of the individuals.