After awhile, one can see a pattern developing...

Super strength comes with invulnerability... some of these tanks fly, some don't. All such characters are eventually compared to Superman or Hulk respectively. Martial artists are abundant with minor gimmicks separating them.

Batman uses lots of gadgets, Captain America uses one "gadget," Iron Fist has a mystical chi punch, and Shang-Chi is the transcendent master. But ultimately, they all still just fight.

Telepaths are a bit more interesting despite their power essentially being the same because different telepaths tend to use it differently. Some are mind readers or controllers, some come up with tricks like linking senses, some cause people to ignore their senses for virtual invisibility or other illusions, some manipulate with memories, some cause direct psionic damage, and some do all of the above and possibly more. But their primary schtick is talking inside other people's heads.

Are there any new powers? How about ways to use old powers in fresh new ways to make new characters seem different?

Or is it all "My character is just like {insert character here} except he has a different costume and backstory"?

I trust in random rolls for exactly this reason. Without a superbly convincing reason to swap out random powers and origin- what you roll is what you got.

Super strength in MSHRPG is already a form invulnerability since it's not really or solely muscular strength, it couldn't be. If you roll a character with that kind of physical power and it isn't a cyborg there's no reason why you have to follow the 1940s inherited wrestler-in-tights type look and feel at all. If super strength is psychokinetic then it can be given to a ten year old girl, a white dog or anything else that rolls it up.

To answer the question, if your world is well envisioned, I don't think the powers are front and centre anyway and wouldn't default to "superman only in a different costume" except through lazy players.

Flying Tiger Comics Wrote:
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> To answer the question, if your world is well
> envisioned, I don't think the powers are front and
> centre anyway and wouldn't default to "superman
> only in a different costume" except through lazy
> players.


Or lazy writers, in the case of actual comic book characters.

I do like the idea of psychokinetic strength as an alternative to pure muscle power. That's exactly the kind of thing I'm talking about. How do you make the same old powers different? What about energy emission powers? Well, one way is to alter its appearance without changing function so that it looks different from the standard characters. Energy is easy because all you have to do is suggest different wavelengths and boom, a rainbow of colors to choose from.

I think one of the best ways to make those old archetypical powersets interesting is through creative limitations. Look at how effective, perhaps overly so, kryptonite has worked as a story element for Superman or dehydration on Namor? I know these should never be used every week but it can often enough be a dangling threat.

I don't know about new powersets but I think ones that update along with technology have the most to offer. Be they AIs traveling along the interwebs or like Cypher and Warlock being about to control technology systems.

The Mutants and Masterminds system has a way for someone to mimic another power by burning a resource called hero points so long as its done in a creative and story driven way.

J Bone Wrote:
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> I think one of the best ways to make those old
> archetypical powersets interesting is through
> creative limitations. Look at how effective,
> perhaps overly so, kryptonite has worked as a
> story element for Superman or dehydration on
> Namor? I know these should never be used every
> week but it can often enough be a dangling threat.
>
>

I've seen this idea touted in a few games, but it's always difference-by-limitation instead of difference-by-enhancement. Maybe the hero is better in some way than others with the same power!

Take Hulk and Thor for instance. Both have super strength, but with Hulk it's tied to his anger and gets better with rage. Thor just IS strong.

What if we applied the same to a speedster: the angrier I get the faster I get!

If we look at the reverse, difference-by-limitation, we get Lulk, the guy that gets weaker the angrier he gets, or we get Loose Screw, the guy that gets angrier the faster he runs.

Difference-by-enhancement can often lead to more interesting characters.

Difference by enhancement is a great idea as well. I think there are many ways to polish these old powers in creative ways. Just seems like it takes a bit of thought and consideration to freshen up these heroic archetypes.

What are some good examples of difference by enhancement and limitation?

Kryptonite is a classic example of limitation, just as Green Lantern's former inability to affect the color yellow. How else would you limit powers besides a classic "allergy" type situation weakening the hero or something rendering the hero's powers impotent?


Hulk getting stronger as he gets angrier is a classic example of enhancement... and for awhile Moon Knight gained strength at night based on the phase of the moon, with a full moon being his strongest and the new moon being no enhancement at all. What are other ways to enhance powers to make them interesting?

You could also implement the DC Heroes / MEGS power variants to change ranges (self-only or touch effect powers to distance / ranged / area effect, and vice versa)

Then there's self to usable on others...

Imagine if Multiple Man's self-duplication power was "usable on others" and he could create independently acting clones of.... anybody...

These power modifiers could potentially quintuple / sextuple the size of the ultimate powers book lol

That's a great idea, D.S. I'm going to have to dig out those old books.

Thrudjelmer Wrote:
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> That's a great idea, D.S. I'm going to have to
> dig out those old books.

Definitely fun way to add some weirdness to things.

Usable on others anatomical separation....

"mah junk... It fell off and attacked me..."

I think that one way to make the same old power interesting would be to offset it to a certain extent with other limitations. An old person could acquire a physical based power such as super speed or strength but still be hampered other effects of aging. Or it could be someone who is physically disabled. What would super strength be like for someone confined to a wheel chair. One of the limits on characters is that they are for the most part either perfect physical examples of humanity or their powers are not limited by their physical impairments (Professor X) or they compensate for it (Daredevil).

Why aren't there more mutants with weather control? It's just Storm... because it seems like anyone else that shows up with the power would be compared as a knockoff. But Wolverine isn't the only feral animal-themed mutant. Angel isn't the only flying mutant, or even the only one with wings. Professor X certainly isn't the only telepath, Colossus isn't the only super Strong Guy (See what I did there?), and Kitty Pryde isn't the only one who can phase through things. Heck, Magneto isn't even the only one with magnetic manipulation.

So how come Storm is seemingly the only one of her kind? Probably because there's not enough interesting twist to put on that to separate another weather manipulator. I suppose you could have someone specialize in one aspect of weather, but then that character would not only be a knockoff but also a weak imitation as well.

When it comes to Storm being the only mutant with weather control, it seems to me that Claremont kept playing around with some ideas of her somehow being connected spiritually to the land or mother earth or... something. He kept it pretty ambiguous in my revisiting of his run this summer. But it seems like she is a special kind of mutie. Without a dept of knowledge of 90s lore, I might argue that her mutant ability is not so much weather control as an ability to access some greater spiritual force that allows her to tap into it for weather control.

J Bone Wrote:
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> When it comes to Storm being the only mutant with
> weather control, it seems to me that Claremont
> kept playing around with some ideas of her somehow
> being connected spiritually to the land or mother
> earth or... something. He kept it pretty ambiguous
> in my revisiting of his run this summer. But it
> seems like she is a special kind of mutie. Without
> a dept of knowledge of 90s lore, I might argue
> that her mutant ability is not so much weather
> control as an ability to access some greater
> spiritual force that allows her to tap into it for
> weather control.

"Goddess!" got yelled a lot, and I always thought that was his Chekov's Exclamation / foreshadowing. But it went nowhere. Other than the one Phoenix like thing when she went claustrophobic after doom sealed her in when the X-Men were in Latveria waayyyy back in the 80s. Her freeing herself resulted in her going into Shift-Z territory with her power.

Flying Tiger Comics Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> "Goddess!" got yelled a lot, and I always thought
> that was his Chekov's Exclamation / foreshadowing.
> But it went nowhere. Other than the one Phoenix
> like thing when she went claustrophobic after doom
> sealed her in when the X-Men were in Latveria
> waayyyy back in the 80s. Her freeing herself
> resulted in her going into Shift-Z territory with
> her power.


There is another issue, not long after the Dark Pheonix saga where Storm went Shift Z and became Goddess level fighting all the X-Men. It was a groaner of an issue as it reads like another Claremont female going super bad ass. Nothing ever came of it again. When she lost her powers for a few years after Forge's anti-mutant gun stripped her of those powers, there are some interesting things that go on in the background if one pays attention. There are a lot of freak weather events that hit when the drama amps up. A few times its commented on as well. She ultimately gets her powers back after going on a spiritual journey as well. So I would argue that in terms of mutant abilities, she is kind of unique.

J Bone Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Flying Tiger Comics Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > "Goddess!" got yelled a lot, and I always
> thought
> > that was his Chekov's Exclamation /
> foreshadowing.
> > But it went nowhere. Other than the one Phoenix
> > like thing when she went claustrophobic after
> doom
> > sealed her in when the X-Men were in Latveria
> > waayyyy back in the 80s. Her freeing herself
> > resulted in her going into Shift-Z territory
> with
> > her power.
>
>
> There is another issue, not long after the Dark
> Pheonix saga where Storm went Shift Z and became
> Goddess level fighting all the X-Men. It was a
> groaner of an issue as it reads like another
> Claremont female going super bad ass. Nothing ever
> came of it again. When she lost her powers for a
> few years after Forge's anti-mutant gun stripped
> her of those powers, there are some interesting
> things that go on in the background if one pays
> attention. There are a lot of freak weather events
> that hit when the drama amps up. A few times its
> commented on as well. She ultimately gets her
> powers back after going on a spiritual journey as
> well. So I would argue that in terms of mutant
> abilities, she is kind of unique.

Jean Grey has always annoyed me in the way they prop her up as the super badass. It always seemed sort of artificial. Mainly because her only limit was her low self esteem. I think they handled Phoenix better, at least in the late 80s/ early 90s.

Also, I always found it annoying the lack of imagination regarding her powers. For instance, they fight the Juggernaut...she has TK...she never just flung him into space...or even just lifted him 10 feet off the ground...he can't be stopped but he can be thrown...connect the dots!

Well in The Young Protectors one of the characters who has flight (it's pretty much his sole power) has an interesting take on it, as it explicitly gives him incredible lifting ability for anything he decides to pick up in flight once he's defining it as 'his'. He's shown (in game terms) doing a power stunt (and making his red feat for his first attempt) flying into a power-meltdown on a TK creating a maelstrom tornado of debris by concentrating on considering any debris that hits him as basically part of his lifting as it promptly zeroes the momentum of what's hitting him effectively giving him limited damage reduction by nulling the strikes.

Nightmask Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well in The Young Protectors one of the characters
> who has flight (it's pretty much his sole power)
> has an interesting take on it, as it explicitly
> gives him incredible lifting ability for anything
> he decides to pick up in flight once he's defining
> it as 'his'. He's shown (in game terms) doing a
> power stunt (and making his red feat for his first
> attempt) flying into a power-meltdown on a TK
> creating a maelstrom tornado of debris by
> concentrating on considering any debris that hits
> him as basically part of his lifting as it
> promptly zeroes the momentum of what's hitting him
> effectively giving him limited damage reduction by
> nulling the strikes.

A long time ago I found a superhero RPG, I don't recall the the name but I do remember a few things about it. It was a small book and in the game if you wanted to use a cape properly you needed the skill "Flourish" otherwise you risk becoming part of the incredible's anti-cape reel. There was a "Trait" that allowed you to ignore normal physics such as picking a car up by it's bumper would normally damage it but you have some type of Zero point gravity field that allowed you to do it without the consequences normally associated. This is really the one that brought it to my mind, first when talking about Psychokinetic strength and then with the post quoted. Last there was a kind of "Lightweight" trait, basically it allowed a character to be really strong in regard to lifting things but they just didn't have the real punching power generally associated with high strength.

That being said, I've used the Psychokinetic strength myself for characters, which if I'm not mistaken is actually how Superboy from "Reign of the Supermen" had super strength.

For around 5 years I played City of Heroes and because the power sets were limited I often found myself thinking of creative ways to explain why two seemingly different power sets fit.

It would be an interesting exercise to try and find characters from canon with literally identical powers as far as possible and see how different from each other they are.

Original power level Spider-Man versus Frank Miller era Daredevil maybe? That kind of thing anyway- literally identical but not at all the same.

I suppose quite a lot of the Hulk villains from the classic era would fall into this category. Power: really freaking strong. That's it. Or maybe really freaking strong plus strong skin.