[www.bbc.com]


I don't think this is the old Marvel where the bring in a substitute just to give them their own unique identity like days of the past when Eric Masterson became Thunderstrike, John Walker became U.S. Agent, and James Rhodes became War Machine.

Thor had his worthiness for his own name & power taken away and given to a woman he's loved, then had his arm chopped off... Captain America suddenly aged and handed off his name to Sam Wilson, only to return long enough to be turned into a Hydra double agent... Wolverine is killed off and replaced by both X-23 in name and his mopey alternate reality self in body... Namor was turned into a villain (again, so no big deal except) and killed by decapitation... Tony Stark is being removed from the Iron Man armor again, after Rhodey is killed off, so we get a 15 year old girl taking over as Iron Man... plus a host of other changes which won't end with the end of the X-Men related books...

And so on and so on until now... Bruce Banner is replaced by Amadeus Cho as the Hulk, and now Banner is killed off by an arrow to the head. Thanks, Hawkeye.

I look forward to the day when a black-Asian Muslim inhuman woman of lesbian orientation gains the power of the Hulk, the hammer of Thor, carries the shield of Captain America, wears the armor of Iron Man, and takes over as the new Spider-Man... because she can do it all, damn it.

Civil War II issue #1 killed off Rhodey and She-Hulk.

The story is pretty freaking great so far. Nothing to do with the first Civil War, just events that pit heroes against each other.


Marvel is changing the Universe of 52 years and it is about time. "Forced Diversity" is one way to look at white heroes from the 60's reaching an end and younger characters who are female, black, gay Hispanic and Muslim, picking up the mask/helmet/hammer. Or you could look at these new story lines as a way for an entertainment company to correct decades of catering to an audience who was predominantly straight, white and male.

Creating Luke Cage in 1972 so Marvel could have black super hero with his own title was great, having him written by a white guy (Archie Goodwin who was talented) and set in a blaxslpoitation version of Harlem, where everyone talks jive and dresses like a pimp or an extra from the Warriors, is not great.

If white comic book fans don't like it, there is always Pokemon and My Little Pony.

Correct catering to their target audience at the time by handing the popularity associated with various heroes to female and minority characters because what, they deserve it? They deserve the company killing off, maiming, or otherwise belittling white characters so non white males have a chance to shine?

You don't fix equality by taking who was on top and put them on the bottom. You raise one side up to make them equal, and this is not equal treatment. The days of Luke Cage blacksploitation are long past and the character WAS corrected without having to turn him into someone he's not by giving him equal treatment, making him a major character in the Avengers titles for years and evolving him into a strong leader, father, and continued force in the Marvel Universe. That's good. Turning Captain America into an old man so he can hand the name & shield off to Falcon, not so good... making Thor unworthy of his own name and power so they can hand it off to a woman, then literally make him less of a man (by removing his arm, thus reducing his actual mass) also not good. Meanwhile, Jane Foster "valiantly" battles cancer taking chemotherapy treatments because she's far too good to take the easy way out when a magical Asgardian cure was offered her, but the hammer wipes away the toxins that fight her cancer every time she transforms making her even more "heroic." Yeah, if the magic hammer can wipe out the chemo toxins, why doesn't also wipe out her cancer? It's bad writing for the sake of the diversity agenda. And if you don't like that, well... I guess you can keep reading the garbage that Marvel is pushing, lucky you. Enjoy your garbage.

But as to the Pokemon and My Little Pony references: I think you know where you can shove them.

Tigerfaced God Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Civil War II issue #1 killed off Rhodey and She
> Hulk.
>
> The story is pretty freaking great so far. Nothing
> to do with the first Civil War, just events that
> pit heroes against each other.
>
>
> Marvel is changing the Universe of 52 years and it
> is about time. "Forced Diversity" is one way to
> look at white heroes from the 60's reaching an end
> and younger characters who are female, black, gay
> Hispanic and Muslim, picking up the
> mask/helmet/hammer. Or you could look at these new
> story lines as a way for an entertainment company
> to correct decades of catering to an audience who
> was predominantly straight, white and male.

They aren't correcting things they're just disrespecting the fan base and pandering and treating those non-whites as gullible idiots who they think all they have to do is just shove a black guy or black woman or what have you into the costume of an existing white male character and *poof* they'll get all those viewers rushing in to buy the comics like lemmings. Which is why instead of creating new characters to suit that diversity they're destroying existing characters without any regard to the actual people who're buying and who they're alienating.

> Creating Luke Cage in 1972 so Marvel could have
> black super hero with his own title was great,
> having him written by a white guy (Archie Goodwin
> who was talented) and set in a blaxslpoitation
> version of Harlem, where everyone talks jive and
> dresses like a pimp or an extra from the Warriors,
> is not great.

Luke Cage was great and it's not like how talked or dressed wasn't something at least some blacks did at the time and not like what color his writer was mattered.

> If white comic book fans don't like it, there is
> always Pokemon and My Little Pony.

Well that's pretty insulting and derogatory there, so basically you feel that THOSE fans aren't considered worth anything, that only the non-White fans and what they want is worth anything? Sounds pretty discriminatory to me.

I just wanted to comment:

I happen to be Caucasian and I think 1970's Luke Cage was pretty damn awesome, in fact, he was one of my favorite street level heroes.
I can recall the 70's and I have to say cultural idiosyncrasies of the times and decades will always exist and one should learn to see beyond that and not just chalk it up to being a racial thing.

Destroying pre-existing characters and IP's to try and make something Politically Correct is bad, m 'kay?. (Salem trials and Nazi views ring a bell? Destroying while claiming it's for a greater good is about as evil as it gets.) A character will not gain staying power and personality just by having someone else's accolades and fame dropped on them It just does not work, instead writers should be giving the fans something called "writing" and developing well written characters who become a hero. The recent trend of lets make this hero female or that hero a different nationality is one more nail in Marvel's coffin. DC is not any better by comparison. (Carmen Infantino is who Stan Lee learned all his tricks from, after all.)

Also, I agree that the Valiant universe is pretty awesome. Dark Horse is also pretty awesome. I advise any comics aficionado to check it out.

Nightmask Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Tigerfaced God Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > If white comic book fans don't like it, there is
> > always Pokemon and My Little Pony.
>
> Well that's pretty insulting and derogatory there,
> so basically you feel that THOSE fans aren't
> considered worth anything, that only the non-White
> fans and what they want is worth anything? Sounds
> pretty discriminatory to me.


I know I found it rather insulting. If I don't like what the big publishers are pushing, I also have the option of co-writing my own stories with my players. Stories in which I can dismiss awful changes and even vent a little by doing away with rubbish changes in equally bad ways. Jane Foster? No, no, no... she'll never be Thor. She's far too dead from the cancer Marvel gave her. Hulk dead from an arrow to the head? No, no, no... it just slows him down a little as he continues transforming and then pulls the arrow out and heals over just fine. War Machine dead? No, no, no... because there is no stupid push of more inhumans for the sake of screwing over Fox by pushing mutants aside, so there's no future-telling guy causing heroes to fight over the stupid future crimes plot idea of Minority Report starring Tom Cruise.

Screw Marvel. They don't know how to treat their characters. I hope they drive stuff into the ground and Disney has to bail them out, then lays down the law about preserving the iconic status of their icons.

Tigerfaced God Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Civil War II issue #1 killed off Rhodey and
> She-Hulk.
>
> The story is pretty freaking great so far. Nothing
> to do with the first Civil War, just events that
> pit heroes against each other.
>
>
> Marvel is changing the Universe of 52 years and it
> is about time. "Forced Diversity" is one way to
> look at white heroes from the 60's reaching an end
> and younger characters who are female, black, gay
> Hispanic and Muslim, picking up the

I
> mask/helmet/hammer. Or you could look at these new
> story lines as a way for an entertainment company
> to correct decades of catering to an audience who
> was predominantly straight, white and male.
>
> Creating Luke Cage in 1972 so Marvel could have
> black super hero with his own title was great,
> having him written by a white guy (Archie Goodwin
> who was talented) and set in a blaxslpoitation
> version of Harlem, where everyone talks jive and
> dresses like a pimp or an extra from the Warriors,
> is not great.
>
> If white comic book fans don't like it, there is
> always Pokemon and My Little Pony.

_____________________________________________

Don't you think there are better ways to promote diversity opposed to throwing minorities a bone by temporarily letting them wear the identities of established white male characters? How about more new characters with their own identities like Black Panther, Storm and Luke Cage? All great characters. I think the Falcon is a great character and doesn't need to be "Captain America." Marvel is just lazy and doesn't want to work at making a Falcon series work by putting serious effort into it. And do you really think the comics industry will survive the loss of 80% of their audience in those white male comic book fans? Come now.

I think Marvel is using the comics mainly to audience test potential movie characters. When Downey hangs it up, do they get a younger actor to play Tony Stark or introduce a new character to take over as Iron Man? If Riri proves popular in the comics, they could use her in the movies. If not, no big deal. The comics can reboot the status quo at any time. Ditto with Amadeus Hulk, Falcon America &c.

Long story short, we have to stop thinking of Marvel comics as their own universe with events that matter. They're just a throw away testing ground for the movies now.

FTJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think Marvel is using the comics mainly to
> audience test potential movie characters. When
> Downey hangs it up, do they get a younger actor to
> play Tony Stark or introduce a new character to
> take over as Iron Man? If Riri proves popular in
> the comics, they could use her in the movies. If
> not, no big deal. The comics can reboot the status
> quo at any time. Ditto with Amadeus Hulk, Falcon
> America &c.
>
> Long story short, we have to stop thinking of
> Marvel comics as their own universe with events
> that matter. They're just a throw away testing
> ground for the movies now.

Marvel and DC both have almost completely reverted to what it was like in the beginning years of comics where if you mentioned 'continuity' to the writers and people in charge the response would have been 'what's that?'. Totally forgetting or at least ignoring what made comics into the enduring things they became in the first place. If I'm reading stories about the same character I expected to see things advance and change and continuity to be important, I'm nobody's beta tester and I'm certainly not going to have them trick me into thinking I should pay THEM on top of that.

Tigerfaced God Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Civil War II issue #1 killed off Rhodey and
> She-Hulk.
>
> The story is pretty freaking great so far. Nothing
> to do with the first Civil War, just events that
> pit heroes against each other.
>
>
> Marvel is changing the Universe of 52 years and it
> is about time. "Forced Diversity" is one way to
> look at white heroes from the 60's reaching an end
> and younger characters who are female, black, gay
> Hispanic and Muslim, picking up the
> mask/helmet/hammer. Or you could look at these new
> story lines as a way for an entertainment company
> to correct decades of catering to an audience who
> was predominantly straight, white and male.
>
> Creating Luke Cage in 1972 so Marvel could have
> black super hero with his own title was great,
> having him written by a white guy (Archie Goodwin
> who was talented) and set in a blaxslpoitation
> version of Harlem, where everyone talks jive and
> dresses like a pimp or an extra from the Warriors,
> is not great.
>
> If white comic book fans don't like it, there is
> always Pokemon and My Little Pony.


Sir.,.. You are either a troll, or legitimately ignorant of the actual problem.

I am just going to keep saying it until someone can answer with more than boo-hoo us poor white men (of which I am one). Comics pass mantles back and forth all the time so what the @#$%& does it matter who they pass it too?

If you want to argue they shouldn't pass mantles period then argue it, but if what you are pissed about is who they are passing it too then you need to stop and ask yourself why. Is it because of this perceived notion that you can't be for something unless you are against something else? That if you are for diversity then you must be against white men?

I don't think I will ever understand this line of reasoning.

Warlock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am just going to keep saying it until someone
> can answer with more than boo-hoo us poor white
> men (of which I am one). Comics pass mantles back
> and forth all the time so what the @#$%& does it
> matter who they pass it too?
>
> If you want to argue they shouldn't pass mantles
> period then argue it, but if what you are pissed
> about is who they are passing it too then you need
> to stop and ask yourself why. Is it because of
> this perceived notion that you can't be for
> something unless you are against something else?
> That if you are for diversity then you must be
> against white men?


To me it matters that they're passing it at all because it's become far too common. It used to be a cool way to revitalize old characters that weren't popular and/or had faded from general usage. These days it's become a convenient excuse to throw out white/male characters to push a diversity agenda when the original characters were not necessarily in need of revitalization or faded from popular status. The Marvel movies' popularity prove that Spider-Man, Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, and others are doing just fine in the public eye with the real versions of those characters rather than pretenders taking up the mantle.

If Amadeus Cho gains gamma powered strength and powers and green skin and wants to call himself something Hulk-related (like other Hulk characters already have), whatever. But calling him the new (and, ugh, The Totally Awesome) Hulk is super pretentious on his part and just pathetically unoriginal on the writer's part. To quote Hulk: "Hulk is Hulk." And Cho is just another gamma-powered freak.

Warlock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am just going to keep saying it until someone
> can answer with more than boo-hoo us poor white
> men (of which I am one). Comics pass mantles back
> and forth all the time so what the @#$%& does it
> matter who they pass it too?
>
> If you want to argue they shouldn't pass mantles
> period then argue it, but if what you are pissed
> about is who they are passing it too then you need
> to stop and ask yourself why. Is it because of
> this perceived notion that you can't be for
> something unless you are against something else?
> That if you are for diversity then you must be
> against white men?
>
> I don't think I will ever understand this line of
> reasoning.

Well that's good since that's not the line of reasoning involved which you've kind of ignored whenever it's been explained.

The thing is, if you're a fan of these changes, you should still be annoyed because nothing these new characters do will matter a year from now. Everything will just get reshuffled again.

FTJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The thing is, if you're a fan of these changes,
> you should still be annoyed because nothing these
> new characters do will matter a year from now.
> Everything will just get reshuffled again.

A very good point there. You're right, all this stuff they toss out now it'll never stick so even if you happy with it you won't get to see it remain (and if you (generic you) spent your time insulting the people who liked how it was you'll be whining and insisting your complaining isn't the same as theirs and just so obviously different that the new thing you liked should have been treated as sacred never to be changed again).

FTJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The thing is, if you're a fan of these changes,
> you should still be annoyed because nothing these
> new characters do will matter a year from now.
> Everything will just get reshuffled again.

I am not so much a fan as just not rabidly against the very idea of it. Now I don't get how someone else can be Hulk, but if they are I simply don't care what race or gender they are, and I don't get why so many of you do.

Nightmask Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well that's good since that's not the line of
> reasoning involved which you've kind of ignored
> whenever it's been explained.

No, many people on these boards have explained over and over and over and over and over and over, at great @#$%& length, why they shouldn't be changing things period, but not at all why it matters that they are changing race and gender, despite that being the main talking point of most of the negative posts. Sure the whole line of SJW this and SJW Blah Blah Blah gets thrown around a lot but that's more of a political talking point than an explanation. In this case the artificially drawn lines by those with the true agendas trying to split people into groups have been drawn along the idea that anything pro diversity is obviously anti-white man, or anything centering around white men is obviously a blow against diversity. But by spewing the anti-SJW BS all you are doing is declaring what side you are on. It isn't an explanation by itself. SJWs are people who aren't pro-white men all the time and you must fight against them cause something, something else bad, and erosion of male whatever. I get it.

Now without repeating any of that explain to me why it matters that new the Iron Man is a young black woman?

Warlock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> people on these boards have explained over
> and over and over and over and over and over,
> at great @#$%& length, why they shouldn't be
> changing things period, but not at all why it
> matters that they are changing race and gender,
> despite that being the main talking point of most
> of the negative posts.
<--snip-->
> Now without repeating any of that explain to me
> why it matters that new the Iron Man is a young
> black woman?


It doesn't specifically matter that it's a young black woman. It matters that once again they are making an unnecessary change to the title character, but the race/gender (and in this case age) comes up because I'm pointing out that the reason for the unnecessary change, this overused passing of the mantle nonsense, is specifically for their new diversity agenda. I would be complaining just as much if they replaced Hulk with another white man under the same conditions that they wrote Banner out, or Captain America, or Thor, or any other character that is popular already. So I find it irritating that they are making race the issue for the changes when the changes are both unneeded and stupidly handled.

I'm saying unnecessary change is bad AND they are doing it to insert minority and female characters into traditional roles. YOU are ignoring my explanations and demanding to know why the race/gender of the characters is important. You're looking for too much answer where the simpler answer should suffice.

Bruce Banner is Hulk and Hulk is Hulk, but Amadeus Cho is someone else. It doesn't matter in the least to me that he's Asian other than that's the entire reason they are trying to push him on the audience. Marvel makes it the race issue, and I complain about the change because I think the change was wrong --not for who was changed, but that there is change at all now. End of story.


Now if Hulk was selling poorly and they let the title go unpublished for a few years with a great closing scene to write the character out... and then down the road the tried to revitalize the character with someone new, I'd say "Sure, give it a go because the old one wasn't selling and some time has passed. But it's a cheap writer's crutch to just write the old character out and move the new one right in seamlessly that too many are using too often specifically because they want to have an instantly popular character that's female or minority or whatever, and they line of thinking is that if they give another character a popular hero's name, then all that old popularity translates into the new character being popular, when many readers are only just putting up with the change until the new eventually gets their own unique-but-similar identity Thunderstrike, War Machine, U.S. Agent, etc).

But I'm not having it, and I don't care if it's new minority characters and what people will think of me for speaking out against them. Because if Marvel wants to promote NEW characters that aren't white males, then I'll be all for it... but they aren't really new, they're just ripping off the older ideas and trying to make it all new with the idea that if anyone complains, they're just sexist or racist. And I call B.S. on that.

Since I brought up Thunderstrike, let me clarify the issue...


Eric Masterson taking over for Thor. I did not like and I was very vocal in my complaint letters to Marvel. When Eric was given his own identity as Thunderstrike, I warmed up to the character and in retrospect was less bothered by him being considered worthy to wield Mjolnir because they revealed that he and Thor were still sharing a body and mind with Thor's conscious mind suppressed, so I let go as some of real Thor was in there rubbing off on already heroic Eric. Then, as Thunderstrike, he had a decent but short-lived run in which he heroically sacrificed himself at the end, and that was the end of it...

Until a few years back when they had the Thunderstrike mace delivered to Eric's son, Kevin. And Kevin became the new Thunderstike. Excellent passing of the mantle. The old wasn't all that popular and they killed him off and let him fade a bit from fan memory. They waited a significant time, then gave the mace to someone who made sense because of familial connection, and then shuffled him off to the side where they can use him or not at their convenience rather than force him down everyone's throat like he should have the original's popularity carryover. If he did well enough with his mini-series, he'd get a regular book. If not, appearances in something else (like Avengers Academy,) which could be the second chance to see if people like the character or not for who he is now.

The new crap is just "find convenient excuse even if very implausible and apply it to popular character A, then either insert underrated female/minority character B or just make up a new female/minority as the replacement and "INSTANT POPULAR MINORITY CHARACTER: GO!! LOOK HOW DIVERSE WE ARE!!" Crap, crap, and boring unimaginative crap. My craps take better craps than that crap writing.

Warlock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nightmask Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well that's good since that's not the line of
> > reasoning involved which you've kind of ignored
> > whenever it's been explained.
>
> No, many people on these boards have explained
> over and over and over and over and over and over,
> at great @#$%& length, why they shouldn't be
> changing things period, but not at all why it
> matters that they are changing race and gender,
> despite that being the main talking point of most
> of the negative posts. Sure the whole line of SJW
> this and SJW Blah Blah Blah gets thrown around a
> lot but that's more of a political talking point
> than an explanation. In this case the artificially
> drawn lines by those with the true agendas trying
> to split people into groups have been drawn along
> the idea that anything pro diversity is obviously
> anti-white man, or anything centering around white
> men is obviously a blow against diversity. But by
> spewing the anti-SJW BS all you are doing is
> declaring what side you are on. It isn't an
> explanation by itself. SJWs are people who aren't
> pro-white men all the time and you must fight
> against them cause something, something else bad,
> and erosion of male whatever. I get it.
>
> Now without repeating any of that explain to me
> why it matters that new the Iron Man is a young
> black woman?

Because Kang the Conqueror didn't travel back in time to take out Iron Token?

Warlock Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> FTJ Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The thing is, if you're a fan of these changes,
> > you should still be annoyed because nothing
> these
> > new characters do will matter a year from now.
> > Everything will just get reshuffled again.
>
> I am not so much a fan as just not rabidly against
> the very idea of it. Now I don't get how someone
> else can be Hulk, but if they are I simply don't
> care what race or gender they are, and I don't get
> why so many of you do.

I'm more forgiving of racelifting than some are. Several people on this site have expressed dislike for the idea of making the Ancient One white and female. I'm not against such changes per se, but the previews I've seen of Swinton's Ancient One look awful. I think they probably should have stuck closer to the original concept in that case.

Anyway, like I said, nothing in Marvel comics has consequences anymore. If you think Banner will stay dead or Stark will stay retired or whatever, I've got a bridge to sell you in Attilan.

RIP Bruce. Your true fans will miss you.

Another bad move by Marvel.

How about this! The Thing contracts a virus and turns pink for breast cancer awareness month.




















NOT.

Taarna Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> RIP Bruce. Your true fans will miss you.
>
> Another bad move by Marvel.
>
> How about this! The Thing contracts a virus and
> turns pink for breast cancer awareness month.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> NOT

How about a gun control advocate version of the Punisher that runs around paint-bombing people who wear fur?

Dead Sidekick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Taarna Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > How about this! The Thing contracts a virus and
> > turns pink for breast cancer awareness month.
>
> How about a gun control advocate version of the
> Punisher that runs around paint-bombing people who
> wear fur?


Some truly awful suggestions... on par with the dreck Marvel is putting out.

Thrudjelmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dead Sidekick Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Taarna Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > > How about this! The Thing contracts a virus
> and
> > > turns pink for breast cancer awareness month.
> >
> > How about a gun control advocate version of the
> > Punisher that runs around paint-bombing people
> who
> > wear fur?
>
>
> Some truly awful suggestions... on par with the
> dreck Marvel is putting out.



These were sarcasm, but sadly in line with Marvel's thinking these days.

Puny Marvel, HULK SMASH.

Tigerfaced God Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Civil War II issue #1 killed off Rhodey and
> She-Hulk.
>
> The story is pretty freaking great so far. Nothing
> to do with the first Civil War, just events that
> pit heroes against each other.
>
>
> Marvel is changing the Universe of 52 years and it
> is about time. "Forced Diversity" is one way to
> look at white heroes from the 60's reaching an end
> and younger characters who are female, black, gay
> Hispanic and Muslim, picking up the
> mask/helmet/hammer. Or you could look at these new
> story lines as a way for an entertainment company
> to correct decades of catering to an audience who
> was predominantly straight, white and male.
>
> Creating Luke Cage in 1972 so Marvel could have
> black super hero with his own title was great,
> having him written by a white guy (Archie Goodwin
> who was talented) and set in a blaxslpoitation
> version of Harlem, where everyone talks jive and
> dresses like a pimp or an extra from the Warriors,
> is not great.
>
> If white comic book fans don't like it, there is
> always Pokemon and My Little Pony.

Marvel has recently done Marvel Now, Secret Wars, All New All Different Marvel...at this point they are just throwing crap at the walls to see what sticks. Its not a natural progression to keep pace with the times at all. Been reading Stan Lee's book one writing comics and he made an excellent point, dont write stories for demographis, write stoies you like. And if other people like them they will sell, if not try another story. This writing to appease social media issues is just failure in a bucket.

Thrudjelmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>A lot lol.

I'm not going to go point by point, cause I am lazy, but you have some well thought out reasoning, and while I don't agree with all of it at least its not just some cut and pasted "hate SJW rawr" nonsense you can see on any board.

I have always come back to these boards as they were one of the few places where you could find in-depth discussions on comics that might get heated, sometimes over-heated, but it was still a debate and not just regurgitated talking points from opposite sides. I can't stand the SJW nonsense not because I always disagree with the line of thinking (although I quite often do), but because it's a nonsensical and simple minded way to label and dismiss someones ideas without having to actually address, or so much as stop to think about, a differing thought process. It also clouds over some valid points as many will dismiss comments made by those people just as they do others.

All I am saying is if there are less labels thrown around and more trying to understand others ideas, even if you don't end up agreeing with them, that maybe there would be a few more multiple page threads.

Marvel doesn't hate their readers, or their characters, or white men just because they are shaking things up. If people don't like the changes it doesn't automatically make them racist and anti-diversity. Can't we start all threads and posts with this in mind?

>How about a gun control advocate version of the Punisher that runs around paint-bombing people who wear fur?

That'd make a great What if?

SunWuKong Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >How about a gun control advocate version of the
> Punisher that runs around paint-bombing people who
> wear fur?
>
> That'd make a great What if?


Now you're talking SunWuKong! I say Marvel aims even lower. How about Mister Fantastic gets divorced and goes girl crazy!

After all, he can stretch, inflate, and control any part of his anatomy.