So remember how, after the first Civil War, Marvel/S.H.I.E.L.D. had the 50 States Initiative, where each state was assigned its own superhero team? (My state, NC, got the U-Foes?!) Well, in the grand tradition of repeating past events/storylines, Marvel's now doing the U.S.Avengers, assigning an Avenger to each state. Most are assigned to their state of birth, but some have a more thematic tie or some tie to a big moment in their life.

So far 30 have been revealed:

• Alaska got Hellcat (Patsy Walker was born in Centerville, CA, but as part of the The 50 State Initiative, she was assigned/dispatched to AK)
• Arizona got Nova (Sam Alexander, born in Carefree, AZ)
• California got Iron Man (CA is where Tony Stark founded Circuits Maximus [later renamed Stark Enterprises] after Obadiah Stane took over Stark International; It’s also where MCU!Tony’s mansion was located)
• Colorado got Hercules (born in Thebes, Greece, and AFAIK has never even been to CO… is there a big Greek immigrant population there?)
• Connecticut got Black Widow (Natalia Romanova/Natasha Romanoff was born in Stalingrad, USSR, and AFAIK has never even been to CT… is there a big Russian immigrant population there?)
• Delaware got Captain America (Steve Rogers was born in NYC, but DE became the first state to ratify the Constitution of the United States [on December 7, 1787], thereby becoming known as The First State)
• Georgia got U.S. Agent (John Walker was born in Custer’s Grove, GA)
• Hawaii got Havok (Alex Summers was born in Honolulu, HI)
• Idaho got She-Hulk (Jen Walters was born & raised in Los Angeles, CA, but she once went berserk in Bone, ID and nearly killed several Avengers)
• Illinois got The Beast (Hank McCoy was born & raised in Dundee, IL)
• Indiana got Winter Soldier ("Bucky" Barnes was born & raised in Shelbyville, IN)
• Iowa got Hawkeye (Clint Barton was born & raised in Waverly, IA)
• Kentucky got Cannonball (Sam Guthrie’s from a large farming family in Cumberland County, KY)
• Louisiana got Spectrum (Monica Rambeau was born in N’Awlins, and was a lieutenant in the New Orleans harbor patrol before getting powers)
• Maryland got Falcon/Captain America (Sam Wilson’s a Harlem, NY native, and I don’t know of any MD connection; MD’s not the second state [that’s PA], and while there are several species of falcons found in MD, they’re not an MD-specific bird)
• Massachusetts got Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers was born & raised in Boston, MA)
• Michigan got The Thing (Ben Grimm was born on Manhattan’s Lower East Side, and IDK of any MI connection… does MI have lots of rock quarries? Or a big Jewish community?)
• Minnesota got Quake (Daisy Johnson was born in New Orleans, LA, but MN has had several earthquakes; the Great Lakes Tectonic Zone is bounded by Duluth, MN at its southernmost tip)
• Missouri got The Whizzer (Robert Frank was born in St. Louis, MO)
• Nevada got Red Hulk (Thaddeus Ross’s current base is in the Yucca Mountain Nuclear Waste Depository in NV)
• New Hampshire got Spider-Man (Peter Parker was born in Queens, NY, but IDK of any NH connection)
• New Mexico got The Hulk (Bruce Banner was born in Dayton, OH, but became The Hulk at the Los Diablos Army Base in NM, and the old Hulkbusters HQ was in NM)
• New York got Luke Cage (born & raised in Harlem, NY)
• North Carolina got Namor, the Sub-Mariner (Namor was one of Marvel's earliest characters, NC was one of the first states; NC's got the "first in flight" things, Namor's one of Marvel's earliest characters who could fly; NC's got thriving coastal communities and economy -- and part of America's Graveyard of the Atlantic -- so there's the aquatic tie)
• Oregon got Sunspot (Roberto da Coast was born in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, so IDK… is OR big on solar power?)
• Pennsylvania got Doctor Strange (Stephen Strange was born in Philadelphia, PA)
• Rhode Island got Iron Fist (Danny Rand was born in either K’un-Lun or NYC, but IDK of any RI connection… is there a big Chinese immigrant population there?)
• South Carolina got Marvel Boy (Noh-Varr was born on the Kree Empire, and IDK of any SC connection)
• Utah got Totally Awesome Hulk (Amadeus Cho was born in Tucson, AZ, but he met Athena Parthenos & fought Pythagoras Dupree in Excello, UT)
• Virginia got Quicksilver (Pietro Maximoff was born in Mt. Wundagore, Transia, in Europe, but he and other members of X-Force once worked for Serval Industries, which was based in VA)

(source)

20 more to go.

Are any of your states listed? If so, what do you think of your assigned Avenger? If your state's not listed, who do you think Marvel will assign, or who would you like to see assigned?

Why does there have to be a connection or theme or some reason for a hero to be assigned to a state? That's just who they got. And I don't even want to know anything at all about Totally Awesome Hulk.

Quote
tystates
Why does there have to be a connection or theme or some reason for a hero to be assigned to a state? That's just who they got.

Not all of them do have a clear connection (that I can discern), but... why shouldn't there be some connection? Daisy Johnson was assigned to a place that experiences lots of earthquakes because her powers can (probably) stop them, something not many others can do, so there's a very good reason to put her there. The Guthries are known in Kentucky, so locals might be more willing to approach Sam with some problem than they would be some outsider. Rambeau worked with the New Orleans Harbor Patrol, she knows exactly the types of crimes face and the resources they have to work with, she has applicable experiences & knowledge no one else has.

For me, if I had to choose between A] an outsider who knows nothing of my area, of the organizations and issues going active in it, of the types of crime that are most prevalent, and the institutions in place that are already working to deal with those crimes and issues, and B] someone who is from my area, who is familiar with its people and the issues they face, I'd prefer B] the person who knows the place and is probably known & trusted by the locals.

Yet another car crash of an idea.

Movies = continuity for me. Comics 1963-1982 = historical continuity. The rest just isn't worth it any more. And the backward destruction has even robbed older comics of any great interest. Horrible.

The Whizzer.

Does he still wear.... yellow?

What, no New Jersey yet? Pfft.

I kind of liked the idea of a 50 States Initiative when it first came out as it recalled me to the glory days of the West Coast Avengers. Sadly I'm not feeling this idea as strongly. I'm in Upstate NY and so while I do like the idea of Luke Cage being my areas hero, I tend to think of him being a bit more specifically tied to the Harlem region instead of the whole of the state. He doesn't have much to say about Buffalo or Rochester NY. Spider-Man has always struck me as the quintessential NY Super-hero... though I reckon he too doesn't reflect much on Buffalo or Poughkeepsie either.

I could see dividing the USA into regions and have Avengers teams based in or near each region's major city, but the 50 state initiative is dumb.

(I actually got criticised on twitter for saying that Falcon America was a dumb idea, on the grounds that using "dumb" as a put-down is ableist. But I stand by my use of dumb, dammit! )

FTJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I could see dividing the USA into regions and have
> Avengers teams based in or near each region's
> major city, but the 50 state initiative is dumb.
>
> (I actually got criticised on twitter for saying
> that Falcon America was a dumb idea, on the
> grounds that using "dumb" as a put-down is
> ableist. But I stand by my use of dumb, dammit!
> )


Sheesh people will look for any excuse to try and make themselves seem politically correct and just come off sounding stupid instead. Do they even know what the word means? I mean they couldn't even figure out the context for 'dumb' and seem to think because Falcon's black that's somehow a handicap (I guess I'm handicapped then being 5' 4" tall and have red hair and being left-handed).

Quote
Nightmask
Do they even know what the word means? I mean they couldn't even figure out the context for 'dumb'

Context matters, yes. "Dumb" originally meant "unable to speak"; "deaf and dumb" meaning "unable to hear or speak." In some cultures, it was thought impossible to teach or even communicate with deaf-mute people, and thus they were considered to not possess moral agency (i.e., make moral judgements based on knowing what is right and what is wrong), and therefore were unable to own property, act as witnesses in court, or be punished for any crime (instead they'd just be sent to asylums). Which is how it became a synonym for "low intelligence"... and is why some people find it an offensive term, because deaf-mute people are no less intelligent than anyone else.

Quote
Nightmask
seem to think because Falcon's black that's somehow a handicap (I guess I'm handicapped then being 5' 4" tall and have red hair and being left-handed).

When was it illegal for short people to drink from tall people's water fountains? For red headed people to marry blondes? For left handed people to be in certain cities after sundown? For people with any combination of those traits to vote?

Dr Archeville Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>

Quote
Nightmask
Do they even know what the word
> means? I mean they couldn't even figure out the
> context for 'dumb'

> Context matters, yes. "Dumb" originally meant
> "unable to speak"; "deaf and dumb" meaning "unable
> to hear or speak." In some cultures, it was
> thought impossible to teach or even communicate
> with deaf-mute people, and thus they were
> considered to not possess moral agency (i.e., make
> moral judgements based on knowing what is right
> and what is wrong), and therefore were unable to
> own property, act as witnesses in court, or be
> punished for any crime (instead they'd just be
> sent to asylums). Which is how it became a
> synonym for "low intelligence"... and is why some
> people find it an offensive term, because
> deaf-mute people are no less intelligent than
> anyone else.

That's a whole lot of inventing reasons to be offended over something they had zero reason to be offended over. Dumb was clearly being used as synonymous with stupid and it was stupid for someone to toss a fit and get offended over its use.

>

Quote
Nightmask
seem to think because Falcon's
> black that's somehow a handicap (I guess I'm
> handicapped then being 5' 4" tall and have red
> hair and being left-handed).

> When was it illegal for short people to drink from
> tall people's water fountains? For red headed
> people to marry blondes? For left handed people
> to be in certain cities after sundown? For people
> with any combination of those traits to vote?

And that has what all to do with the tea in China? Because being black is NOT a handicap, a handicap is missing an arm, being blind, etc there is nothing about being black that constitutes a handicap (unlike being excessively short since the world is constructed around people of average height making things more difficult for those who're excessively short and who're excessively tall).

Quote
Nightmask
That's a whole lot of inventing reasons to be offended over something they had zero reason to be offended over. Dumb was clearly being used as synonymous with stupid and it was stupid for someone to toss a fit and get offended over its use.

Invented? Those aren't invented, those things actually happened. "Dumb" being used as a synonym for low intelligence stems directly from the belief that deaf-mute people could not be communicated with or educated, and thus were subhuman, which is why that word is seen as an offensive ableist term. ("Stupid" is also an ableist term.) Taking a few moments to think about what you're saying takes so little time; you may think it's "political correctness gone wild," I call it "basic human decency" and "not being as casually, unthinkingly ableist/racist/sexist/etc. as I know I have been in the past." When a person tells you that you hurt them, you don't get to decide that you didn't.

Quote
Nightmask
And that has what all to do with the tea in China? Because being black is NOT a handicap, a handicap is missing an arm, being blind, etc there is nothing about being black that constitutes a handicap (unlike being excessively short since the world is constructed around people of average height making things more difficult for those who're excessively short and who're excessively tall).

Handicap (Noun): a disadvantage that makes achievement unusually difficult.
Handicapped (Adjective): having a condition that markedly restricts one's ability to function physically, mentally, or socially. [source: Merriam-Webster]
"Disabilities is an umbrella term, covering impairments, activity limitations, and participation restrictions. An impairment is a problem in body function or structure; an activity limitation is a difficulty encountered by an individual in executing a task or action; while a participation restriction is a problem experienced by an individual in involvement in life situations. Disability is thus not just a health problem. It is a complex phenomenon, reflecting the interaction between features of a person’s body and features of the society in which he or she lives." [source: World Health Organization]

Being Black isn't the same as being blind or missing a limb, yeah, but being Black is itself a disadvantage -- a handicap -- in America. For starters, Black people tend not get access to the same quality of education and healthcare as White people, a much bigger disadvantage than not being able to reach the top shelves without a step stool, or use right-handed scissors comfortably.

Dr Archeville Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Taking a few moments to think about what you're
> saying takes so little time; you may think it's
> "political correctness gone wild," I call it "basic
> human decency" and "not being as casually,
> unthinkingly ableist/racist/sexist/etc. as I know
> I have been in the past." When a person tells
> you that you hurt them, you don't get to decide
> that you didn't.



I am offended by people that are too sensitive and take political correctness too far. And no one else gets to decide that my offense isn't real or important. Therefore everyone either needs to stop being so sensitive or at least respect the fact that I find it offensive when they disrespect me with their politically correct statements.

Dr Archeville Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>

Quote
Nightmask
That's a whole lot of inventing
> reasons to be offended over something they had
> zero reason to be offended over. Dumb was clearly
> being used as synonymous with stupid and it was
> stupid for someone to toss a fit and get offended
> over its use.

> Invented? Those aren't invented, those things
> actually happened. "Dumb" being used as a synonym
> for low intelligence stems directly from the
> belief that deaf-mute people could not be
> communicated with or educated, and thus were
> subhuman, which is why that word is seen as an
> offensive ableist term. ("Stupid" is also an
> ableist term.) Taking a few moments to think
> about what you're saying takes so little time; you
> may think it's "political correctness gone wild,"
> I call it "basic human decency" and "not being as
> casually, unthinkingly ableist/racist/sexist/etc.
> as I know I have been in the past." When a person
> tells you that you hurt them, you don't get to
> decide that you didn't.

Yes invented, in the end your entire 'history of dumb' there is irrelevant because it had ZERO to do with what FTJ said, again dumb is just another way of saying stupid, one has to invent excuses to get offended by the use of the word in the context it was used in treating it as if it were somehow a reference to mute people when it wasn't. It's as invented as people who toss a fit at the use of the word 'niggardly', the word's meaning is completely benign yet people looking to get offended toss a fit at hearing it because they want to be offended. Stupid is also not an 'ablest' term it's just an insult.

>

Quote
Nightmask
And that has what all to do with
> the tea in China? Because being black is NOT a
> handicap, a handicap is missing an arm, being
> blind, etc there is nothing about being black that
> constitutes a handicap (unlike being excessively
> short since the world is constructed around people
> of average height making things more difficult for
> those who're excessively short and who're
> excessively tall).

>

Handicap (Noun): a disadvantage that makes
> achievement unusually difficult.
> Handicapped (Adjective): having a condition that
> markedly restricts one's ability to function
> physically, mentally, or socially. [source:
> Merriam-Webster]
> "Disabilities is an umbrella term, covering
> impairments, activity limitations, and
> participation restrictions. An impairment
> is a problem in body function or structure; an
> activity limitation is a difficulty
> encountered by an individual in executing a task
> or action; while a participation
> restriction is a problem experienced by an
> individual in involvement in life situations.
> Disability is thus not just a health problem. It
> is a complex phenomenon, reflecting the
> interaction between features of a person’s body
> and features of the society in which he or she
> lives." [source: World Health
> Organization]

> Being Black isn't the same as being blind or
> missing a limb, yeah, but being Black is
> itself a disadvantage -- a handicap -- in America.
> For starters, Black people tend not get access to
> the same quality of education and healthcare as
> White people, a much bigger disadvantage than not
> being able to reach the top shelves without a step
> stool, or use right-handed scissors comfortably.

No sorry totally not going to buy it, being black is not a handicap. If I were black instead of white I would not be handicapped, I would just be black instead of white. I will insult no black person by telling them that they're handicapped because they aren't white, they are equal to me and it's offensive to try and make them out as if their entire group is handicapped because of their color.

Seriously, people have got to stop turning everything into an excuse to be offended, it's too often just a way for someone to justify making else's life miserable. They can't even have a bad meal because someone said something that they didn't like without trying to get them fired, after all their poor feelings are far more important than someone's ability to feed himself or his family. God when did people get so sensitive that ruining someone's life is considered acceptable behavior instead of the completely disproportionate retribution it actually is?

Dr Archeville Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Being Black isn't the same as being blind or
> missing a limb, yeah, but being Black is
> itself a disadvantage -- a handicap -- in America.
> For starters, Black people tend not get access to
> the same quality of education and healthcare as
> White people, a much bigger disadvantage than not
> being able to reach the top shelves without a step
> stool, or use right-handed scissors comfortably.

Please don't perpetuate myths. POOR people don't get the same access to these things. People tend to focus on POOR BLACK PEOPLE as if they are the ONLY BLACK PEOPLE, frankly it's insulting.

Are you trying to say, with statements like this, that Obama's kids didn't have the same access to education as some white guy's kids? That they received lesser healthcare?

Are you trying to say white people in Appalachia receive better health care or education than a black family living in Beverly Hills?

There are MANY poorer people in the US and around the world that are under-privileged, and yes, being POOR is a handicap, but this doesn't mean ALL people of a certain race are in the same situation. They come from ALL RACES. Focusing on the poor from one or a few races means we're not trying to fix the problem for ALL poor people.

That being said, 50-states-Avengers is a dumb idea, IMO.

Quote
Thrudjelmer
I am offended by people that are too sensitive and take political correctness too far. And no one else gets to decide that my offense isn't real or important. Therefore everyone either needs to stop being so sensitive or at least respect the fact that I find it offensive when they disrespect me with their politically correct statements.

Are you offended by their expression of hurt, or that you can't keep casually spouting words and ideas that are racist or sexist without being called on it?

Quote
Nightmask
Yes invented, in the end your entire 'history of dumb' there is irrelevant because it had ZERO to do with what FTJ said, again dumb is just another way of saying stupid, one has to invent excuses to get offended by the use of the word in the context it was used in treating it as if it were somehow a reference to mute people when it wasn't. It's as invented as people who toss a fit at the use of the word 'niggardly', the word's meaning is completely benign yet people looking to get offended toss a fit at hearing it because they want to be offended. Stupid is also not an 'ablest' term it's just an insult.

It's not invented, those things actually happened, that's the history of the word. A history that includes treating people like subhumans, which is precisely how it came to mean "low intelligence," which is directly relevant.

Do you get why people would be offended by the word "niggardly"? It's because it sounds a lot like another n*gg*r word, one that is hugely offensive. So in light of that, how can you say it's "completely benign"? Why use a word that sounds so much like a racial slur with centuries of pain behind it? Especially when there are other words you could use which have the same meaning (like "fussy" or "miserly" or "stingy")?

Yes, "stupid" is an insult, because it's an ableist term. It's a word that exists to belittle those based upon their perceived mental acuity.

Are you really not seeing how someone would be upset by this? Are you not able to even consider that you might be doing harm to someone, and lack the desire to decrease -- even if only by a tiny, infinitesimal fraction -- the amount of insults and slurs casually thrown about? If someone asks to be treated with basic dignity, and that requires you to make a few changes to your language, are you really not going to do it, simply because it's, what, inconvenient for you?

Quote
Nightmask
No sorry totally not going to buy it, being black is not a handicap. If I were black instead of white I would not be handicapped, I would just be black instead of white. I will insult no black person by telling them that they're handicapped because they aren't white, they are equal to me and it's offensive to try and make them out as if their entire group is handicapped because of their color.

Seriously, people have got to stop turning everything into an excuse to be offended, it's too often just a way for someone to justify making else's life miserable. They can't even have a bad meal because someone said something that they didn't like without trying to get them fired, after all their poor feelings are far more important than someone's ability to feed himself or his family. God when did people get so sensitive that ruining someone's life is considered acceptable behavior instead of the completely disproportionate retribution it actually is?

I already said it's not a handicap in the same was as missing a limb or an eye. But Black people do have disadvantages in American society. You see that, right? That Black people are generally treated worse and have fewer opportunities than White people? That when things go bad for a Black person, they go worse than if the same thing happened to a White person?

People aren't looking for an excuse to be offended. They are tired of being casually and constantly insulted and treated as second-class citizens, of having their mental illnesses treated like jokes or a sign that they're dangerous, of being treated as less-than, attacked, and killed for their gender or sexuality, and now they're calling people out on it. People being offended didn't suddenly start happening, they've been offended for decades or centuries, they're just now becoming more vocal about it, and it's happened in part because of the increased interconnectivity the internet provides (being able to communicate with people in similar situations, and drawing strength from that, or being exposed to people who are different from you and realizing that while your life may have problems, other people are much worse off in ways you could not previously imagine). And for White people, heterosexual people, cisgender people, neurotypical people, all those who've been at the top for so long, being asked to be treated fairly, as equals, to not have insults and slurs constantly thrown at them, that's perceived as an attack.

Quote
barna10
Please don't perpetuate myths. POOR people don't get the same access to these things. People tend to focus on POOR BLACK PEOPLE as if they are the ONLY BLACK PEOPLE, frankly it's insulting.

Are you trying to say, with statements like this, that Obama's kids didn't have the same access to education as some white guy's kids? That they received lesser healthcare?

Are you trying to say white people in Appalachia receive better health care or education than a black family living in Beverly Hills?

There are MANY poorer people in the US and around the world that are under-privileged, and yes, being POOR is a handicap, but this doesn't mean ALL people of a certain race are in the same situation. They come from ALL RACES. Focusing on the poor from one or a few races means we're not trying to fix the problem for ALL poor people.

Obama's kids probably had less access than the kids of other White Senators or other White Presidents.

Statistically -- which means looking at groups, not cherry-picked individuals (having a Black PotUS doesn't mean systemic anti-Black racism went away) -- if you're just looking at race, Black people generally don't have access to the same level of education or health care at White people. Poverty is linked to that, yes -- because Black people are disproportionately more likely to be poor in the U.S. than White people (and even being White and poor, you're probably better off than if you were Black and poor) -- but race itself is a factor. For example, Black patients are systematically undertreated for pain due to the (false) belief that Black people feel less pain than do White people do; Black diabetics experiencing nerve pain don't get treated as readily as White diabetics, which is part of why Black diabetics end up losing limbs at roughly 3x the rate of White diabetics.

Dr Archeville Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>

Quote
Thrudjelmer
I am offended by people that
> are too sensitive and take political correctness
> too far. And no one else gets to decide that my
> offense isn't real or important. Therefore
> everyone either needs to stop being so sensitive
> or at least respect the fact that I find it
> offensive when they disrespect me with their
> politically correct statements.

> Are you offended by their expression of hurt, or
> that you can't keep casually spouting words and
> ideas that are racist or sexist without being
> called on it?


Are those words really doing harm to others or are they just upset because they've taken offense to them? You say being called on casually spouting words and ideas that are racist/sexist, and I say my freedom of speech. And yeah, anyone has the right to be offended by something, but everyone has the right to offend because if we stopped saying anything that's offensive to anyone for any reason, we would have to redefine a lot of language and invent new words and then toss out a lot of that because there will always be people LOOKING for reasons to be offended who will find a way to be offended by something.

Context matters with words. Calling someone dumb or stupid may have origins describing people who were treated as subhuman a long time ago, but people taking offense to that is just retarded. Yes, I'll say it... because I'm not making fun of people who have mental retardation, I'm insulting the idea that people can't recognize that language evolves and words grow beyond their original purpose and meaning; and --as Nightmask stated, that people look for ways to be insulted. People are too sensitive and make an issue out of everything, and expect everyone to respect it... and that is what I find offensive.

Dr Archeville Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>

Quote
Nightmask
Yes invented, in the end your
> entire 'history of dumb' there is irrelevant
> because it had ZERO to do with what FTJ said,
> again dumb is just another way of saying stupid,
> one has to invent excuses to get offended by the
> use of the word in the context it was used in
> treating it as if it were somehow a reference to
> mute people when it wasn't. It's as invented as
> people who toss a fit at the use of the word
> 'niggardly', the word's meaning is completely
> benign yet people looking to get offended toss a
> fit at hearing it because they want to be
> offended. Stupid is also not an 'ablest' term it's
> just an insult.

> It's not invented, those things
> actually
> happened, that's
> the
> history of the word. A history that
> includes treating people like subhumans, which is
> precisely how it came to mean "low intelligence,"
> which is directly relevant.

Yes, invented, they invented an excuse to be offended because the history of the word is completely irrelevant what the word's actual meaning from the actual context it was used in was what mattered. For a normal person when you call them dumb or stupid if they get insulted by it it's because someone just questioned their intelligence they aren't tacking on any of the rest of that because it has no bearing on what the person using it meant.

> Do you get why people would be offended by the
> word "niggardly"? It's because it sounds a lot
> like another n*gg*r word, one that is
> hugely offensive. So in light of that, how can
> you say it's "completely benign"? Why use a word
> that sounds so much like a racial slur with
> centuries of pain behind it? Especially when
> there are other words you could use which have the
> same meaning (like "fussy" or "miserly" or
> "stingy")?

I can say it's completely benign because no matter how much one cares to try and stretch things 'niggardly' has nothing at all to do with 'nigger', it is no more offensive than 'sniggering' is and someone who is getting offended by it is looking for an excuse to be offended because you're definitely looking for an excuse to be offended when you go 'that kinda sounds like a racial slur and I choose to be too ignorant and sensitive to tell that it isn't'. Especially when you have black people who use said slur towards each other and go 'well it's okay when WE do it'.

> Yes, "stupid" is an insult, because it's an
> ableist term. It's a word that exists to
> belittle those based upon their perceived mental
> acuity.
>
> Are you really not seeing how someone would be
> upset by this? Are you not able to even consider
> that
> [url=http://www.autistichoya.com/p/ableist-words-a
> nd-terms-to-avoid.html]you might be doing harm to
> someone[/url], and lack the desire to decrease --
> even if only by a tiny, infinitesimal fraction --
> the amount of insults and slurs casually thrown
> about? If someone asks to be treated with basic
> dignity, and that requires you to make a few
> changes to your language, are you really not going
> to do it, simply because it's, what, inconvenient
> for you?

I am COMPLETELY uninterested in living my life in terror that at some point I'll accidentally offend someone because they choose to be so overly sensitive that they're certain to be offended on a regular basis, because those people aren't being harmed by what's said they're passive-aggressively looking for an excuse to harm someone else and justify it by going 'well he started it he said something that hurt my feelings/offended me'. Because it most definitely offends me when someone tries to spin what I say as being insulting or a slur when I said nothing of the sort because they want to be offended so they can have an excuse to make trouble and lie to themselves that they're justified in their abusive behavior.

> [quote=Nightmask]No sorry totally not going to buy
> it, being black is not a handicap. If I were black
> instead of white I would not be handicapped, I
> would just be black instead of white. I will
> insult no black person by telling them that
> they're handicapped because they aren't white,
> they are equal to me and it's offensive to try and
> make them out as if their entire group is
> handicapped because of their color.
>
> Seriously, people have got to stop turning
> everything into an excuse to be offended, it's too
> often just a way for someone to justify making
> else's life miserable. They can't even have a bad
> meal because someone said something that they
> didn't like without trying to get them fired,
> after all their poor feelings are far more
> important than someone's ability to feed himself
> or his family. God when did people get so
> sensitive that ruining someone's life is
> considered acceptable behavior instead of the
> completely disproportionate retribution it
> actually is?[/quote]
> I already said it's not a handicap in the same was
> as missing a limb or an eye. But Black people
> [i]do[/i] have disadvantages in American society.
> You see that, right? That Black people are
> generally treated worse and have fewer
> opportunities than White people? That when things
> go bad for a Black person, they go worse than if
> the same thing happened to a White person?

Whatever problems blacks have in the US it is nothing but offensive to try and equate them with being handicapped because of the color of their skin.

> People [i]aren't[/i] looking for an excuse to be
> offended. They [i]are[/i] tired of being casually
> and constantly insulted and treated as
> second-class citizens, of having their mental
> illnesses treated like jokes or a sign that
> they're dangerous, of being treated as less-than,
> attacked, and killed for their gender or
> sexuality, and now they're calling people out on
> it. People being offended didn't suddenly start
> happening, they've been offended for decades or
> centuries, they're just now becoming more vocal
> about it, and it's happened in part because of the
> increased interconnectivity the internet provides
> (being able to communicate with people in similar
> situations, and drawing strength from that, or
> being exposed to people who are different from you
> and realizing that while your life may have
> problems, other people are much worse off in ways
> you could not previously imagine). And for White
> people, heterosexual people, cisgender people,
> neurotypical people, all those who've been at the
> top for so long, being asked to be treated fairly,
> as equals, to not have insults and slurs
> constantly thrown at them, that's perceived as an
> attack.

When someone tosses a fit over a non-offensive word because they choose to be too ignorant to accept that it's not even related to an offensive one they're looking for an excuse to be offended. When someone complains at a workplace and gets a co-worker fired because they overheard them talking with someone else about something that they chose to be offended over when they had no business either being offended let alone complaining to management about it they're looking for an excuse to be offended. They're doing it because it gives them power, they can declare offense and act the wounded martyr and revel in seeing people scramble to cater to them, bask in the sense of self-righteousness as they get people punished including fired from their jobs or expelled from their colleges. They're doing it to hurt others they aren't doing it to 'make the world a better place' because their actions don't make the world better it makes the world worse because every person they victimize is going to lose any concern with doing anything but negative things towards people like the ones that harmed them.

Nightmask Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Sheesh people will look for any excuse to try and
> make themselves seem politically correct and just
> come off sounding stupid instead.

I had said that Falcon America was dumb but the Ultimates were cool. This person jumped all over "dumb" but didn't object to "cool" even though that's obviously exclusionary toward menopausal women.

Whatever. I don't sweat it.

Dr Archeville Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And for White people, heterosexual people, cisgender
> people, neurotypical people, all those who've been at
> the top for so long, being asked to be treated fairly,
> as equals, to not have insults and slurs constantly
> thrown at them, that's perceived as an attack.


Just as an example of what Nightmask is trying to say...

"cisgender"? What is that, some kind of reference to sissy? I'm offended at the notion because it sounds like something and I can't be bothered to look into it myself. I don't care if my interpretation is wrong, HOW DARE YOU stereotype anyone for being a cissy about gender issues?? I find your entire argument to be invalidated by your offensive use of the word "cisgender" and I'm going to look into action with this forum's moderators to have you censored for your insensitive remarks. Good day, sir.

Thrudjelmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dr Archeville Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > And for White people, heterosexual people,
> cisgender
> > people, neurotypical people, all those who've
> been at
> > the top for so long, being asked to be treated
> fairly,
> > as equals, to not have insults and slurs
> constantly
> > thrown at them, that's perceived as an attack.
>
>
> Just as an example of what Nightmask is trying to
> say...
>
> "cisgender"? What is that, some kind of
> reference to sissy? I'm offended at the notion
> because it sounds like something and I can't be
> bothered to look into it myself. I don't care if
> my interpretation is wrong, HOW DARE YOU
> stereotype anyone for being a cissy about gender
> issues?? I find your entire argument to be
> invalidated by your offensive use of the word
> "cisgender" and I'm going to look into action with
> this forum's moderators to have you censored for
> your insensitive remarks. Good day, sir.

It's scary how perfectly you capture the essence of the excessively sensitive PC witch hunter with that.

Scary? No... it's just that they are such an overwhelming presence in modern society now that it's so easy to make a mock example of their behavior.

Thrudjelmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Scary? No... it's just that they are such an
> overwhelming presence in modern society now that
> it's so easy to make a mock example of their
> behavior.


I take it back. You're right, that is scary.

So y'all are just doubling down on being willfully ignorant and grossly unempathetic. Gotcha. Bye.

Dr Archeville Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So y'all are just doubling down on being willfully
> ignorant and grossly unempathetic. Gotcha. Bye.

Not even remotely, willfully ignorant is going 'oh no I don't care what the actual word means it has some sounds in it that make me think of offensive words and I'm just too sensitive and unconcerned with what the person actually said to be anything but offended by it'. None of us are being either ignorant or lacking in empathy, you may choose to be extremely over-sensitive and insist on things that aren't true but that doesn't make us in the wrong for pointing out the truth of things.

When someone says something that no reasonable person would have any reason to be offended over (which includes using the word 'niggardly' or 'dumb') THEY are not in the wrong, the person making an issue out of something that isn't is in the wrong. I still remember a case at IUPUI I believe it was in Indiana where a janitor was reading a history text from the library regarding a crowning moment of awesome in history where a group pulled of a truly humiliating coup against the KKK, a black student went on a ranting fit over him reading the book in public because as far as she was concerned it was offensive (and mind you this happened decades ago before PC behavior was entrenched like it is now) simply for the title and he went through hell because of it. NOBODY should be subjected to that kind of abuse and where's YOUR empathy for the victim in this case? Because make no mistake the janitor was the victim not the student.

Dr Archeville Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So y'all are just doubling down on being willfully
> ignorant and grossly unempathetic. Gotcha. Bye.

Who's being "willfully ignorant"? Not agreeing you is not the same as being ignorant. Also, you don't own "empathy". When you're ready to sit at the table and have an intelligent, more than one-sided discussion, you're welcome back.

Next, STOP THE STUPID "NIGGARDLY" DEBATE! No one uses that word unless they want to start some PC argument about how we've gone too PC. Seriously, unless you're 80+ years old you've never even heard or seen the word outside of one of these debates or in literature published before 1950. Enough is enough. Yes, the PC culture sucks, but they aren't sopping anyone from using that word anymore than they are from you using "Daddy-o" or calling a tough guy a "Bimbo" (Yes, we used to call tough guys Bimbos).

barna10 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No one uses that word unless they want to start some
> PC argument about how we've gone too PC. Seriously,
> unless you're 80+ years old you've never even heard
> or seen the word outside of one of these debates or in
> literature published before 1950.

Actually, it became quite a heated topic in the late 90s with David Howard.

Quote

On January 15, 1999, David Howard, an aide to Anthony A. Williams, the mayor of Washington, D.C., used "niggardly" in reference to a budget. This apparently upset one of his black colleagues, identified by Howard as Marshall Brown, who misinterpreted it as a racial slur and lodged a complaint. As a result, on January 25, Howard tendered his resignation, and Williams accepted it.

The Howard incident led to a national debate in the U.S., in the context of racial sensitivity and political correctness, on whether use of niggardly should be avoided.

Julian Bond, then chairman of the NAACP, deplored the offense that had been taken at Howard's use of the word. "You hate to think you have to censor your language to meet other people's lack of understanding", he said. "David Howard should not have quit. Mayor Williams should bring him back—and order dictionaries issued to all staff who need them."

Bond also said, "Seems to me the mayor has been niggardly in his judgment on the issue" and that as a nation the US has a "hair-trigger sensibility" on race that can be tripped by both real and false grievances.

barna10 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Next, STOP THE STUPID "NIGGARDLY" DEBATE! No one
> uses that word unless they want to start some PC
> argument about how we've gone too PC. Seriously,
> unless you're 80+ years old you've never even
> heard or seen the word outside of one of these
> debates or in literature published before 1950.
> Enough is enough. Yes, the PC culture sucks, but
> they aren't sopping anyone from using that word
> anymore than they are from you using "Daddy-o" or
> calling a tough guy a "Bimbo" (Yes, we used to
> call tough guys Bimbos).

Like Thrud points out people do actually use the word even today because it's a perfectly valid word, yes some certainly use it to provoke people and just be a nuisance but that does not mean anyone should have to worry about being harassed over the use of the word when being used for perfectly valid definitions of the word. It's like that nonsense back when we had the black Bucky, no one with a functioning brain cell should have had any problems with it because Bucky is the actual name of the original partner of Captain America and had been used by others who partnered with a Captain America. But people looking to be offended had issues with it because 'oh no that's wrong because way back in the past racists used to refer to black males as bucks and it sounds too much like that and we can't have that!', even though NOBODY being rational would have had a response like that because Bucky is the hero's name and a perfectly valid name for anyone black or white. In neither case should people be making an issue of things, neither case is an example of racism either overt or subtle and when people toss fits over cases like these they diminish the seriousness people will feel towards actual cases of racism because they've been desensitized by all the nonsense, just like false rape cases diminish the willingness of people to believe the actual rape cases due to the 'cry wolf' aspect of it.

In any case probably a topic best dropped (especially given it's unrelated to the original post). For which somewhat amusingly my state gets Bucky as its designated hero.

Dr Archeville Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>

• North Carolina got Namor, the Sub-Mariner (Namor
  > was one of Marvel's earliest characters, NC was one
  > of the first states; NC's got the "first in flight" things,
  > Namor's one of Marvel's earliest characters who could
  > fly; NC's got thriving coastal communities and economy
  > -- and part of America's Graveyard of the Atlantic -- so
  > there's the aquatic tie)

So, anyhow... Didn't Marvel kill off Namor??