When I ran MSH back in the mid 80's none of us wanted to play the pregen heroes so we created our own along with our own version of Marvel Earth. When we first started we tried rolling up characters as is suggested but it did not turn out well so we just created our heroes as we saw fit. My friend Walt had a character called the Photon (John Star) who could harness the power of light and energy (inventor and owner of Star Industries), Pete had a character called Typhoon (brilliant geneticist but no idea what his secret ID was) who was a master of weather and the earth's atmosphere, and I had a character called Knighthawk (John Marz) who was basically a super ninja (think of a combination between Batman, Wolverine, and a little Tony Stark.. These were our high powered heroes and we also eventually created a junior team (Knighthawk trained). We again tried rolling up characters as per the rules but as an example the character I eventually called Live Wire (electrical powers) had things like telescopic vision, some kind of weird stretch ability, and electrical generation. We ended up just making the characters up as we went, but these characters were much less powerful than the others.
Recently I started a new RPG group with the idea of playing different systems. After a good game of cyber punk themed Dreamchaser game the players wanted to do superheroes and they choose MSH, but after remembering how bad the rolling system was I talked them into Savage Worlds supers. As a GM I prefer the players to be able to choose their powers and abilities within a certain limit. I'd have preferred to use MSH but it just wouldn't work with these players on a random die roll system.

Which brings me here to ask:
Is there a (balanced) point system out there somewhere for use with the FASERIP system?

[classicmarvelforever.com]

A decent system, but always had an issue with resources costing double.

This is what I remember seeing before but I had no idea if it was on here or elsewhere.
Thanks!

What are some --Perceived -- Flaws of point buy character making??

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G.A.W.
What are some --Perceived -- Flaws of point buy character making??

No idea. I prefer a point buy character creation system over anything else because it offers much better balance between the characters. A system where you roll the character stats and such can be really unbalanced, plus it greatly reduces the chances of playing what you want to play.

Point buy can be great if you have a clear concept, but sucks if you do not

Of course everyone on forums everywhere are innocent of this but...

the min maxing and power Optimization of characters and the cookie cutter tendencies of PC's.

Not anyone here or there or online of course ... just as a thought proposal I guess it could happen.?? -

Rolling up characters randomly has some benefits too, maybe....

I don't mind people min maxing. Stretching the game to its limits can be fun....sometimes

Perceived flaws are the idea that point buy creates balanced characters.

This is incorrect. You can create incredibly unbalanced characters... but if everyone has the same resources, you can unbalance them within the same limits as everyone else using the system.

Personally, I like to put soft limits on my players. Anything over AM (50) rank costs double points... so you can go over it, but it will hurt your point total.

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Thrudjelmer
Perceived flaws are the idea that point buy creates balanced characters.

This is incorrect. You can create incredibly unbalanced characters... but if everyone has the same resources, you can unbalance them within the same limits as everyone else using the system.

Personally, I like to put soft limits on my players. Anything over AM (50) rank costs double points... so you can go over it, but it will hurt your point total.

If the point buy system is balanced then it creates balanced characters, like the a few of the other RPGs I play have balanced point buy systems. I have yet to check out this exact point buy system and assumed it was already balanced.
Is it not?

It can still be unbalanced as in one player can get an UN Strength, another might have MN Teleportation, and another could just take a bunch of Talents.

Their points totals will be equal, but their capabilities will not.

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barna10
It can still be unbalanced as in one player can get an UN Strength, another might have MN Teleportation, and another could just take a bunch of Talents.

Their points totals will be equal, but their capabilities will not.

So what you're saying is this point system designed for MSH is not balanced? I get that and if I were to use it I would definitely tweak it some. I would probably use some of the other point buy systems as examples.

An idea could be that each section above Amazing starts to have the point cost doubled and then tripled for above Monstrous. A basic example might be that a 50 would cost 50 points but a 55 would cost 60 points (50 + 10). Whereas a 75 would cost 100 points but an 80 would cost 115 points (50 + 50 + 15). The hard part would be balancing the cost of powers. At this time I am not sure how well the powers are balanced because I haven't looked through it yet.

Superhero RPG's and the Genre itself may be unbalanced generally speaking.

Look at early super Teams , like the Avengers.

A lineup could or did have at one time HULK, IRONMAN, THOR , ant man, wasp ( see what i did there with the capital letters ? )
DC comics - SUPERMAN - or BOY with Karate KId etc etc

-- In which the literary story may have the weaker characters save the day, be the right hero for the job, etc etc -- and the game adventure could be written to do the same but it's Very Noticeably Premeditated .

I get point buy-- and yet maybe have the group roll up many characters randomly and let them pick and form the team that works together or makes sense. the rest of the rolled up characters would be good NPC's and back-up characters.

I don't see the need to have higher abilities cost more. A hero with more powers is arguably more powerful than one with one very powerful power.

Yes, the system is not balanced, buts neither are the comics. It's not about balance and shouldn't be.

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barna10
I don't see the need to have higher abilities cost more. A hero with more powers is arguably more powerful than one with one very powerful power.

Yes, the system is not balanced, buts neither are the comics. It's not about balance and shouldn't be.

Yes that's how it works in the comics but, unfortunately that's not how it works when it comes to RPGs. Balance is always the key no matter what system I am running.

Balance is an illusion. Everyone having the same chance to have fun is the only balance.

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barna10
Balance is an illusion. Everyone having the same chance to have fun is the only balance.

Exactly.

Yes.

Agree again with Thrud and barna 10.

Point buy or random roll makes no difference in my group... because one guy in my group has (proven not cheating) insane dice luck. He rolls high 95% of the time, which has obvious side effects on the character generation tables, more so on the UPB tables.

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nijineko
Point buy or random roll makes no difference in my group... because one guy in my group has (proven not cheating) insane dice luck. He rolls high 95% of the time, which has obvious side effects on the character generation tables, more so on the UPB tables.

Not in my groups. I see more low rolls and fumbles than anything else in the myriad of systems I have run.
I see players get discouraged all the time and start to loose interest because of this, I have also seen players cheat due to constant poor dice rolls. With the lack of people willing to playing anything else but 5e or PF in the area I live now I prefer to keep the players I do have interested so they will continue to play. So a point system is the best way to go for these people.

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Madmaxneo
Not in my groups. I see more low rolls and fumbles than anything else in the myriad of systems I have run.
I see players get discouraged all the time and start to loose interest because of this, I have also seen players cheat due to constant poor dice rolls. With the lack of people willing to playing anything else but 5e or PF in the area I live now I prefer to keep the players I do have interested so they will continue to play. So a point system is the best way to go for these people.

A good middle-ground for me is simply being flexible. I always allow re-arranging ranks and switching-out powers that make sense. I'll also give out power-stunts and the like to round things out.

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Madmaxneo

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nijineko
Point buy or random roll makes no difference in my group... because one guy in my group has (proven not cheating) insane dice luck. He rolls high 95% of the time, which has obvious side effects on the character generation tables, more so on the UPB tables.

Not in my groups. I see more low rolls and fumbles than anything else in the myriad of systems I have run.
I see players get discouraged all the time and start to loose interest because of this, I have also seen players cheat due to constant poor dice rolls. With the lack of people willing to playing anything else but 5e or PF in the area I live now I prefer to keep the players I do have interested so they will continue to play. So a point system is the best way to go for these people.

Our group offers a "powered-by (insert-that-player's-name)" service to newcomers, where they will either help them build the character or roll the stats for them, so as to put everyone on the same level for those that desire such. Personally, I prefer a more storybook/comic style where everyone is NOT balanced, or artificially leveled to be roughly the same capability.

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nijineko

Our group offers a "powered-by (insert-that-player's-name)" service to newcomers, where they will either help them build the character or roll the stats for them, so as to put everyone on the same level for those that desire such. Personally, I prefer a more storybook/comic style where everyone is NOT balanced, or artificially leveled to be roughly the same capability.

Awesome, I am glad that works for you and your groups! Unfortunately anything with random rolls for stats and what not has never really worked out for me and the groups I have been in/ran. I've run into to many issues with people not being happy with the character they rolled up and not even enjoying the game any. Note that I also run a variety of other systems with different genres with stuff from fantasy to sci fi and everything in between and in many of those a comic book style would never work.

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Madmaxneo

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nijineko

Our group offers a "powered-by (insert-that-player's-name)" service to newcomers, where they will either help them build the character or roll the stats for them, so as to put everyone on the same level for those that desire such. Personally, I prefer a more storybook/comic style where everyone is NOT balanced, or artificially leveled to be roughly the same capability.

Awesome, I am glad that works for you and your groups! Unfortunately anything with random rolls for stats and what not has never really worked out for me and the groups I have been in/ran. I've run into to many issues with people not being happy with the character they rolled up and not even enjoying the game any. Note that I also run a variety of other systems with different genres with stuff from fantasy to sci fi and everything in between and in many of those a comic book style would never work.

There's nothing saying you have to be 100% religious about what you roll. I think the random system makes for great inspiration, but you should feel free to alter whatever doesn't work. I've made players stick with rolled ranks, but am always liberal about powers rolled and such to make for a better character. I'll also allow rearranging stats to make for a better character.

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G.A.W.
Superhero RPG's and the Genre itself may be unbalanced generally speaking.

Look at early super Teams , like the Avengers.

A lineup could or did have at one time HULK, IRONMAN, THOR , ant man, wasp ( see what i did there with the capital letters ? )
DC comics - SUPERMAN - or BOY with Karate KId etc etc

-- In which the literary story may have the weaker characters save the day, be the right hero for the job, etc etc -- and the game adventure could be written to do the same but it's Very Noticeably Premeditated .

I get point buy-- and yet maybe have the group roll up many characters randomly and let them pick and form the team that works together or makes sense. the rest of the rolled up characters would be good NPC's and back-up characters.

How about a points system? Each player gets to spend 150 points. FASERIP, ranks, Powers, Power ranks all cost points.

A FASERIP rank of Good cost 10 points. Amazing cost 50 points. Etc.. Nothing is is given above Monstrous. Typical FASERIP ranks cost ZERO points.

Powers and Power ranks cost double points.

Talents cost 10 points each for the first one, 20 points each for each talent after that. You should be able to come up with a good hero, but not power house...unless you creative. My mind is already thinking.

Ready, set, go!

Check out the With Great Power system

The problem with points systems is powers are not all equal. GD Flying is much better than GD Hyper-Leaping and infinitely better than GD Extra Attacks. Even with 2-slot powers costing more, TY Reality Alteration can wreck a game.

There's no good way to balance EVERY thing.

To no one in particular
If " balance " and narrative are more important to one's group use a Powered by the Apocalypse game system maybe.

Worlds in Peril [samjokopublishing.com] is one
and

The Masks RPG is another, [magpiegames.com]

as with most PbtA systems it uses 2d6 dice and mitigates failure in the random dice rolling more than other rpg's.

I personally do not care for those types of rpgs but own Monster of the Week RPG and these games Bend toward Storytelling a lot more.

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barna10
Check out the With Great Power system

The problem with points systems is powers are not all equal. GD Flying is much better than GD Hyper-Leaping and infinitely better than GD Extra Attacks. Even with 2-slot powers costing more, TY Reality Alteration can wreck a game.

There's no good way to balance EVERY thing.

Exactly. Even low rank Telekinesis has so many possible power stunts to it making just Good rank TK way more useful than CL1000 Rank invulnerability to Heat and Flame for example.

Has anyone ever let players roll their 7 ability ( faserip ) scores randomly as per usual - then let them choose where they go? Instead of Straight down the line?

Similar to 5e D&D . Still rolling scores but maybe preventing a player getting stuck with a feeble agility and Amazing fighting or that old man kung fu example from an earlier post : the feeble strength Amazing fighting etc ?

Would any of you let players do that? -

Absolutely