Ive used a similar method to what Capo has described here, except I still made people pay for cresting and powers cost 20x not 10x (as per the advanced rules). I like to good RP be rewarded via little jumps in powers or stats at times, or the awarding of talents even. Im also thinking I like the red feat idea for pbem play since its way slower than table top and those red feats are fewer and farther between. I also like Punstarr's sugesstion that it should be a natural roll (not karma enhanced).

CapoCastillo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The way I do advancement for FASERIP/Powers is
> simply charge the next point value times 10. So
> for instance if you're going from Excellent (20)
> to Excellent (21), you pay 210 points of Karma. I
> also don't charge anything for cresting. I find
> that this makes karma expenditures not only viable
> for purposes of immediate rolling, but by saving
> up for a few sessions, you can make legitimate
> advances as the campaign progresses. Also, the
> lower you are in the column tables, you can see
> real column advancement in a relatively short
> amount of time, but as you get into more
> significant ranges, about Incredible level and
> above, advancement takes more time, experience,
> and effort.
>
> For Talents, i simply charge 100 Karma, plus an
> in-game justification for the advancement.
> Contacts are earned strictly via role play.
>
> Also, the total karma earned in game i distribute
> to all players at maximum value. i don't take the
> total and divide it amongst the players. It's
> fast simple and has been pretty effective for me
> as a Judge.
>
>
> I do like the idea of the natural 100 as an avenue
> of advancement, but I'd want it to be more than
> once. i'm not sure if 5 is the right number for
> me, but I think the idea has merit.


Seems awfully steep to expect someone to make multiple natural 100's to get any advancement from the success Capo. The odds are way against you getting even one for any particular feat roll you're making let alone pulling off several before you finally saw a single point increase. Plus other than the health benefits from advancing your FASE rank number doesn't mean much for any of those except Strength and you don't get any benefit from the advance of the RIP until you actually make it to the next rank same with many powers.

When ever one of my players roll a "crit" <-(a natural 100), I reward that player with an instant 100 Karma Points during game play.

I've seen this help out those new players who end up tapping their karma dry too often, and later they get out of a tight situation with a lucky crit roll and gain a 100 karma bonus to back up their next action. Of course, they eventually learn to reserve their Karma points for more intense situations vs. every roll, heh, gotta love newbs.

Well, as I said, rolling natural 100's is one method of advancement. karma expenditure is another. While I do think that the Karma costs for advancement as written are too steep, advancement is meant to be challenging and come at a cost. it's not meant to be 'easy'. As for FASERIP increases not producing immediate benefit, I do not concur. There's is an immediate health benefit, which is your short term return. but you're really investing in long term growth. The increased fighting equals more actions per round. increased agility has many offensive and defensive benefits as it's built up. increased endurenace is similar in that regard as well. Though if you don't philosophically agree with that, as a player it's your perrogative to invest your karma for increase to power ranks and talents. Either way though, it's gonna cost ya.


Nightmask Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CapoCastillo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The way I do advancement for FASERIP/Powers is
> > simply charge the next point value times 10.
> So
> > for instance if you're going from Excellent
> (20)
> > to Excellent (21), you pay 210 points of Karma.
> I
> > also don't charge anything for cresting. I
> find
> > that this makes karma expenditures not only
> viable
> > for purposes of immediate rolling, but by
> saving
> > up for a few sessions, you can make legitimate
> > advances as the campaign progresses. Also, the
> > lower you are in the column tables, you can see
> > real column advancement in a relatively short
> > amount of time, but as you get into more
> > significant ranges, about Incredible level and
> > above, advancement takes more time, experience,
> > and effort.
> >
> > For Talents, i simply charge 100 Karma, plus an
> > in-game justification for the advancement.
> > Contacts are earned strictly via role play.
> >
> > Also, the total karma earned in game i
> distribute
> > to all players at maximum value. i don't take
> the
> > total and divide it amongst the players. It's
> > fast simple and has been pretty effective for
> me
> > as a Judge.
> >
> >
> > I do like the idea of the natural 100 as an
> avenue
> > of advancement, but I'd want it to be more than
> > once. i'm not sure if 5 is the right number
> for
> > me, but I think the idea has merit.
>
>
> Seems awfully steep to expect someone to make
> multiple natural 100's to get any advancement from
> the success Capo. The odds are way against you
> getting even one for any particular feat roll
> you're making let alone pulling off several before
> you finally saw a single point increase. Plus
> other than the health benefits from advancing your
> FASE rank number doesn't mean much for any of
> those except Strength and you don't get any
> benefit from the advance of the RIP until you
> actually make it to the next rank same with many
> powers.

CapoCastillo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, as I said, rolling natural 100's is one
> method of advancement. karma expenditure is
> another. While I do think that the Karma costs
> for advancement as written are too steep,
> advancement is meant to be challenging and come at
> a cost. it's not meant to be 'easy'. As for
> FASERIP increases not producing immediate benefit,
> I do not concur. There's is an immediate health
> benefit, which is your short term return. but
> you're really investing in long term growth. The
> increased fighting equals more actions per round.
> increased agility has many offensive and defensive
> benefits as it's built up. increased endurenace
> is similar in that regard as well. Though if you
> don't philosophically agree with that, as a player
> it's your perrogative to invest your karma for
> increase to power ranks and talents. Either way
> though, it's gonna cost ya.

I did make note of the Health benefit Capo and while long-term growth is good when it comes to the RIP you don't get any benefits from the increasing rank numbers until you crest, an extremely costly process that a few points here or there thanks to the occasional 100 isn't going to seriously unbalance things because they aren't going to rush ahead by any stretch of the imagination. With the FASE you'll gain just a point here and there and will be a while before you accumulate any significant amount, mostly you simply gain the benefit of the increased health, better damage in combat if the increase was to Strength, and getting another point of health recovery if to Endurance. If you can end up lucky getting a natural Red or especially that 100 one ought to get a reward of a point to the stat in question, that's quite a bit of luck there.

If you were rewriting the game manuals and had the option of changing something in the game mechanics and how the game works, what would you change?

I'd change the way Dodge and Evade is written, favoring my color to color system.

I'd change the Dodge so that it could apply in melee combat, at least as an option to Evade if not as a replacement.

I would also institute a "graze" rule to go along with Dodge, that would reduce any hit by half of the Dodge bonus, ie. -1CS to -3CS, on a Green hit result. A Yellow hit would count as a Bulleye/solid hit and would thus discount the graze modifier.

And I would make Strength (or Body Armour of course), as opposed to Endurance, the chief factor in Charging; belieivng it to be a better indicator of mass, and discount the to-hit the modifier as being entirely non-sensical. "You see him coming form a mile away, but are frozen like a deer in headlights and so can't simply step out of the way!" lol

I would allow characters with the initiative to play possum against a Charge attack, by holding their attack to the last possible moment and then strike the charger, thus gaining the chargers velocity bonus and foiling their Charge. Of course, if the possum misses, they suffer an auto-hit from the Charge.

Oh, and if I could revamp the entire game and the character stats, I would reduce pretty well every established characters Strength by -1CS to more accurately reflect their Strength level as per the OHOTMU Strength level description, ie. under optimal conditions = on a Red FEAT. This one however is just too well entrenched and pervasive and would also require adjustments to alot of other attack and defensive powers, so its not really all that feasible as things actaully stand.

of course many of these ideas have been used or are used in ones own personal game. as long as the judge ( and players? ) agree.

Pulling punches so that you can knock some one out without the risk of their having to still make an endurance check( and die! ) would also be nice.

building things, definately building things.

Powersurge Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd change the Dodge so that it could apply in
> melee combat, at least as an option to Evade if
> not as a replacement.
>
> I would also institute a "graze" rule to go along
> with Dodge, that would reduce any hit by half of
> the Dodge bonus, ie. -1CS to -3CS, on a Green hit
> result. A Yellow hit would count as a
> Bulleye/solid hit and would thus discount the
> graze modifier.
>
> And I would make Strength (or Body Armour of
> course), as opposed to Endurance, the chief factor
> in Charging; belieivng it to be a better indicator
> of mass, and discount the to-hit the modifier as
> being entirely non-sensical. "You see him coming
> form a mile away, but are frozen like a deer in
> headlights and so can't simply step out of the
> way!" lol
>
> I would allow characters with the initiative to
> play possum against a Charge attack, by holding
> their attack to the last possible moment and then
> strike the charger, thus gaining the chargers
> velocity bonus and foiling their Charge. Of
> course, if the possum misses, they suffer an
> auto-hit from the Charge.
>
> Oh, and if I could revamp the entire game and the
> character stats, I would reduce pretty well every
> established characters Strength by -1CS to more
> accurately reflect their Strength level as per the
> OHOTMU Strength level description, ie. under
> optimal conditions = on a Red FEAT. This one
> however is just too well entrenched and pervasive
> and would also require adjustments to alot of
> other attack and defensive powers, so its not
> really all that feasible as things actaully stand.

I totally agree with the charge options here, the Endurance as determining factor never made sense to me either.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/11/2009 12:05AM by Herbert Wyndham.

Punstarr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'd change the way Dodge and Evade is written,
> favoring my color to color system.


What is your color to color system?

Well here's a repost of my Dodge revamp idea from the old boards. Some liked it, some didn't. I just thought it was a cool simplified way of handling Dodge.

"Alright, here's my idea of simplifying Dodge and Evade. As it stands, the Dodge rules suck. They really do. There's so much wrong with them it's not funny, but what stands out to me the most is this... if someone is attacking with greater than Remarkable ability on the Universal Table and they get a 00 natural or via karma, Dodge is absolutely useless. It doesn't matter if Spider-Man is trying to dodge with Monstrous ability or the Flash is trying to dodge at Class 3000 ability. -6CS'd on an Incredible or higher attack is still Feeble, and thus Dodging is impossible. That -always- bugged me. So I've not only simplified the Dodge rules, but done away with "Evade" entirely. Allow me to explain.

Think of the colors on the Universal Table as numbers for a moment. White=0, Green=1, Yellow=2 and Red=3. Dodge should be (imho) a straight opposed roll, FEAT vs FEAT. The attacker rolls to hit, the defender rolls to dodge and their colors are compared. Let's say the attacker got a green result, but the defender got a yellow result. In that case, the defender dodges. No -CS to figure out. Yellow beats Green. Had the attacker rolled a Red result and the defender rolled a Yellow result, the attacker would hit. Ties go to defenders. This way, a defender always has a -chance- of dodging, even if the attacker rolled a red result. Before, a red result rolled on an Incredible or higher was a guaranteed hit, no matter who you were attacking. Against ranged attacks, Agility is used to dodge and against melee attacks, Fighting is used".

> I would allow characters with the initiative to
> play possum against a Charge attack, by holding
> their attack to the last possible moment and then
> strike the charger, thus gaining the chargers
> velocity bonus and foiling their Charge. Of
> course, if the possum misses, they suffer an
> auto-hit from the Charge.

This is in the battle tactics part of the player's book:

Luring: Luring is a tactic by which the character makes himself a target in order to encourage his opponent into attacking him, whether to keep the opponent from attacking others, lead the character into an uninhabited area, or to persuade the opponent to throw a punch or make a charge, only to jump out of the way at the last moment. A character trying to Lure states so. The opponent gets a +2CS on attacks, but at the moment of attack, the defender can pull a defensive move of his or her choice. If the attack misses, the lured character will hit whatever was behind the luring character (the character's choice).

ajax plunkett Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> of course many of these ideas have been used or
> are used in ones own personal game. as long as the
> judge ( and players? ) agree.
>
> Pulling punches so that you can knock some one out
> without the risk of their having to still make an
> endurance check( and die! ) would also be nice.

Well, actually, with the current game mechanics, you can..Just tell the Judge, I'm pulling my punch and reducing the damage from your strength from UN100 to say FB2 (Regardless of Rank, you can still stun someone if you roll high enough.) In this case here, Reducing your damage from strength of UN100 to FB2 which would require a roll of a 100 to even stun someone, I'd call Karma to manipulate the outcome of your roll. Perfect example of this tactic is this comic I have of Spider-Man fighting this wicked but pretty woman villain and Spidey didn't feel comfortable with the idea of smacking a woman around in general and she used this to her advanage. So Spidey dodged all her range attacks, moving into melee combat and once Spidey was in melee, he literally flicked her on the forehead, knocking her out cold. It was rather amusing.

I'm currently working on a useful melee fighting talent... I'll post it for your pleasure once I get the mechanics rounded out.

ThatArtGuy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> > I would allow characters with the initiative to
> > play possum against a Charge attack, by holding
> > their attack to the last possible moment and
> then
> > strike the charger, thus gaining the chargers
> > velocity bonus and foiling their Charge. Of
> > course, if the possum misses, they suffer an
> > auto-hit from the Charge.
>
> This is in the battle tactics part of the player's
> book:
>
> Luring: Luring is a tactic by which the character
> makes himself a target in order to encourage his
> opponent into attacking him, whether to keep the
> opponent from attacking others, lead the character
> into an uninhabited area, or to persuade the
> opponent to throw a punch or make a charge, only
> to jump out of the way at the last moment. A
> character trying to Lure states so. The opponent
> gets a +2CS on attacks, but at the moment of
> attack, the defender can pull a defensive move of
> his or her choice. If the attack misses, the
> lured character will hit whatever was behind the
> luring character (the character's choice).

It's similar to luring but very different. It is aimed specifically at a Charge attack. And it is NOT a defensive manuever, but an offensive manuever.

Various House Rules I use…

General Stuff:

1 Area = 10 Feet X 10 Feet X 10 Feet Grid….. Placing most Character’s Head and Chest in the center of the 3 Dimensional Area, since most Characters are 5 to 6 feet tall… As well, most Characters can clear 10 Feet in most FEAT Actions, such as Melee Actions, Climbing, Jumping, or whatever….. Plus it’s easy to calculate movement from one Area to another.

Urban Area = 20 Feet X 20 Feet X 20 Feet Grid….. Basically this is the Original Area described in the UPB and is generally used for outdoor spaces, vehicles, and Large Characters.


Character Size and Mass …. The general idea is Small Characters get bonuses to Agility and Endurance; Big Characters get bonuses to Fighting and Strength….

It’s all based off ‘Normal’ Height and Weight and is somewhat overly complex when looking at some of my Characters… But this is the simple version…

5 to 6 Feet Tall = 0 bonuses.

150 to 200 Pounds = 0 bonuses.

For every foot over 6 Feet Tall add 1 Point to Fighting and Strength. Subtract 1 Point from Agility.
For every foot under 5 Feet Tall add 1 Point to Agility and Endurance. Subtract 1 Point from Strength.

For Weight, divide the Character’s Weight by 50…. (150 / 50 = 3) or (3000 / 50 = 60)

For every 50 pounds Heavier than 200 add 1 Point to Fighting and Strength. Subtract 1 Point from Agility.
For every 50 pounds Lighter than 150 pounds add 1 Point to Agility and Endurance. Subtract 1 point from Strength.

If players / GMs use it they will discover it works for ALL builds of Characters, especially the super huge Godzilla types and the Super Tiny insect types.


Revamped Mechanics for FASE:

Fighting Attacks = 5 to 10 Feet Away. May ‘Short Shoot’ or ‘Short Throw’ up to 20 Feet (2 Areas)

Fighting Defense = Character stays planted in his / her Area… May Counter Attack in that Game Round.

Agility Defense = Character moves from his / her Area… Counter Attacks in that Game Round are sacrificed to totally avoid an Attack….
(AM:50 Agility / 10 = 5 Areas cleared that Round)

Multiple Actions are ‘Fighting’ Rank divided by 10…. (AM:50 / 10 = 5 Multiple Actions per Round.... Impact is divided)

Complex Combative Evasions = Average of Fighting and Agility for FEAT Roll… These Actions are often “Supa-Woo-Tang-Ninja-Actions” such as Jumping into a backward somersault to Dodge an Attack while simultaneously rapid firing a Shooting Weapon at a Target, banking off a wall to tumble out across the ground and hurl something at a Target….

That particular FEAT Action has 6 Actions:

- Jumping into a backward somersault
- Dodge an Attack
- Shooting a rapid fire Weapon
- Banking off a wall
- Tumble across the ground
- Hurl something at a Target

To execute that particular FEAT the Character needs at least SN:60 Fighting and Agility within 3 Ranks (SP:45)…
FEAT Roll is handled at AM:50 (SN:60 + SP:45 = 105 / 2 = 52.5)….

C’mon…. You’re playing guys like Blade…. He did some fairly fancy moves with AM:50 Fighting and RM:30 Agility……

So now we know Captain America has some ‘SICK AZZ SKILLS’ such as; Tumbling away from an Attack to pop up into a Shield Charge at some other goon 10 Feet Away, banking off that guy’s nugget to Hurl his Shield at some other goon, and ending with Cap’n America using the Dazed Goon as a body bag to catch the rebound shot of his thrown Shield.

One thing I've never liked about the MSH game was its de-emphasis on shooting. Guns do a pitiful amount of damage, and only one shot can be fired per round. Anyone who owns a gun can tell you how unrealistic this is, but for the milieu it makes sense; MSH was designed to be about costumed supers bashing each other.

Since I have found the rulebooks for MSH online, I now use the FASERIP rules for all my campaigns, even the ones that have nothing to do with superheroes. In my current sci-fi campaign, guns and swords are the weapons of choice. As it stands, the character with the sword has the advantage over the one with the gun, especially if the sword slinger has a high agility for dodging and multiple fighting feats. Thus, I came up with a rough draft for a system that allows multiple shooting feats. Here goes:

Two shooting attacks in one round is an IN agility feat (bonuses for the Guns talent apply). 3 attacks would be a MN feat, and 4 shots would be a SHX feat.

Characters with a gun in each hand multiply their attacks by each gun held. The caveat here is that the weapons have to be one handed (no M-60s or miniguns), and the off hand rule would apply. Shooting attacks made from a character's off hand would be at a -2cs to hit, unless the character was ambidexterous. (I use the rules for quirks, as well. See Quirks under the Creation header) Ergo, Nick Fury, with an AGI of EX with a gun skill, bumping him up to RM could get as many as 4 attacks with a red feat pre-attack roll. Spiral (if she wielded guns instead of swords), with an AGI of RM, could get as many as 12 smokin' shots a round.

Throw armor piercing ammo into the mix (a reduction of the defender's armor by 20 points), and the humble gun becomes a deadly weapon again.

What do you think? Over the top? Underwhelming? Do you all have a system of your own for this?

I'm with you Surge. That part of the game has always been a little goofy. In tabletop sessions, I've simply allowed common sense to rule in making such decisions. Much of it, as anyone who has dealt with firearms would know, is based on the kind of weapon being managed. Your example of a dual pistol wielding character is the perfect scenario where the rules fall short.

Makes me wonder if we should require our Players to take a unique Talent for wielding two weapons at once. Although, we don't ask them to do that when they wield two swords at once do we? So why do it here. Perhaps having the Guns Talent should be enough to allow a Player to shoot each pistol an equal amount of times a round, as long as they are at the same target.

I'm very interested to see how this conversation continues. Nice one Surge!

I'd make it so you have to have a Talent called "Ambidexterity" in order to fire multiple weapons in one round, and even then, each weapon after the first should have a cumulative -1CS to hit due to the insane amount of focus firing so many shots would require. I also would not allow multiple actions to multiply by the number of weapons used. .ie, if Barbarus with his four arms were to attempt to fire 4 guns and managed to get 3 attacks, that would not mean he'd get a total of 12 attacks. That's beyond insane in my opinion. He'd get 3 attacks with his primary hand at a -1CS penalty (due to taking multiple actions per the Advanced Player's Guide), and then a 4th attack at -2CS, a 5th attack at -3CS and a 6th attack at -4CS.

I think surges works better than Pun's ruling...

Here's why...
A trained person with the right weapon can get off more than one shot in a six second period. usually 2-3 shots in 6 seconds if a person isn't really trying, so the multiplying the shots for multiple weapons makes sense to me...
plus the dis advantage of a Gun over a sword,is you do have to reload the ma (you have Nick Fury's needleguns... )

Infact, I'd go so far to say that you can do your agility rank Cs per round in shots fired. Typical is 3 shots per round (3 shots per 6 seconds) sounds about right,so Incredible is 7 shots per 6 second etc etc. that would represent some of the shooting feats occasionally seen in comics and movies

For example your average gang Banger probably has just Ty or Gd agility with no talents. so 3-4 shots fired per round, same target. Someone like Castle, however, who's got Rm agility as well as Marksmanship and Guns talent would be capable of firing off a whole mag (9 shots) in one round... something we've seen him do quite often. He also has the talent quick reload ( in comic terms it allows him to reload between comic book panels)

In general, I use a Paired Weapons talent from the Ultimate Talents Book to handle the situation. Multiple attacks with a firearm can represent what a decent shooter can accomplish with a semi-auto handgun, as well as what is seen in comics and movies with much lead-slinging. The allowance of multiple attacks with each of multiple handguns has the definite possibility of getting insane, but the vast majority of characters aren't going to have the requisite levels of Agility and Talents to make large numbers of attacks with guns, and cumulative penalties for using dual weapons as well as firing multiple shots will tend to seriously hamper their accuracy. If the character has to contend with range penalties, or other penalties, as well, accuracy drops further.

Of course, a truly frightening prospect would be a highly skilled individual who's also capable, mentally and physically, of taking shots at two separate targets

I also feel Guns are very poorly represented in MSH-RPG…… And most here have seen my Thread for Game Mechanics on Conventional Guns….


Generally what happens with those Game Mechanics is the Gun Wielder can basically ‘WAX’ any other characters who don’t have some fairly solid Armor, Or high end Defenses such as great Agility.



When the Game Mechanics are too complex for players I go back to a Really Old Simple House Rule…. The Gun Slinger is throwing / shooting more Damage per Attack based on his FEAT Roll…


Basic 9MM Beretta Hand Pistol

- GD:10 Damage / EX:20 Piercing per Bullet
- Effective Range: About 150 Feet (15 Areas or 7 Areas on the old Table)
- Used on Agility with a [+1CS] with an appropriate Talent… [+more CS] with Aiming Devices.
- Sacrifice [+CS] to Shoot from ‘Fighting’ and gain the ability to ‘Counter Attack’ in that Same Round.
- Fighting Rank defined how many Bullets could be fired off… Drop the Zero…

TY:06 Fighting = 1 Bullet Fired per round
GD:10 Fighting = 1 Bullet Fired per round
EX:20 Fighting = 2 Bullets Fired per round
RM:30 Fighting = 3 Bullets Fired per round
IN:40 Fighting = 4 Bullets Fired per round
AM:50 Fighting = 5 Bullets Fired per round
MN:75 Fighting = 7 Bullets Fired per round…. But rarely these Characters use a Conventional Gun.


- Blue: Failed… Didn’t even shoot or 1 bullet was fired out of mistake…. Target ‘Area’ is missed…
- White: Fired a barrage of Bullets, but they all missed and peppered the ‘Area’… May still be useful with explosive Bullets though.
- Green: Hit the Target with 1 Bullet OR 1/4 barrage of Bullets... IN:40 would be 1 Bullet Hits the Target. (GD:10 Damage + EX:20 Piercing)
- Yellow: Hit the Target with 1/2 your barrage of Bullets OR Bulls-Eye 1 Bullet. (Max Damage X's Bullets) OR (GD:10 Damage + Stun)
- Red: Hit the Target with your barrage of Bullets OR Bulls-Eye 2 to 3 Bullets depending on Fighting.. (Max Damage + Kill Effect)


Paired Weapons I simply handle as a 2nd Gun adding Twice the Damage, but not Twice the Armor Piercing…….




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2009 04:27AM by TankerAce.

Well my idea is mainly to prevent rampant munchkinism. "I have 8 arms, Monstrous Agility, a set of 8 special pistols that each do Amazing damage (armor piercing) and the Weapon Specialist Talent. I can fire off 24 shots a round for 1200 armor piercing damage every single round! Kewl huh"?

Punstarr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well my idea is mainly to prevent rampant
> munchkinism. "I have 8 arms, Monstrous Agility, a
> set of 8 special pistols that each do Amazing
> damage (armor piercing) and the Weapon Specialist
> Talent. I can fire off 24 shots a round for 1200
> armor piercing damage every single round! Kewl
> huh"?

well that's where you as the Dm step in and go "Hell No"
And here's how I'd handle it...

If he want's the specalized pistols, he has to either create, or buy them after them game starts.

Plus he needs to design (or have designed for him) the ammo for the guns from scratch. (Specalized ammo, exotic properties... Probably a Mn Reason feat)

And he needs to pay for making each piece of ammo, and spend the time making each round, unless he has an automated manufacturing plant geared to the Ammo's creation.

Then there's the Mags. Even an extended Mag, for pistols is no more that 15 rounds, that's the Maximum size limit for a pistol mag. and in order to be able to change mag's between rounds, you have to have at least one hand free for every weapon you're firing, so No 8 pistols per round.Maximum of 4 pistols.
But considering the specalized nature of the rounds, I'd have to rule that even with an extended clip, You can only have 5 rounds in each Mag.

Chronomancer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Punstarr Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well my idea is mainly to prevent rampant
> > munchkinism. "I have 8 arms, Monstrous Agility,
> a
> > set of 8 special pistols that each do Amazing
> > damage (armor piercing) and the Weapon
> Specialist
> > Talent. I can fire off 24 shots a round for
> 1200
> > armor piercing damage every single round! Kewl
> > huh"?
>
> well that's where you as the Dm step in and go
> "Hell No"
> And here's how I'd handle it...
>
> If he want's the specalized pistols, he has to
> either create, or buy them after them game
> starts.
>
> Plus he needs to design (or have designed for him)
> the ammo for the guns from scratch. (Specalized
> ammo, exotic properties... Probably a Mn Reason
> feat)
>
> And he needs to pay for making each piece of ammo,
> and spend the time making each round, unless he
> has an automated manufacturing plant geared to the
> Ammo's creation.
>
> Then there's the Mags. Even an extended Mag, for
> pistols is no more that 15 rounds, that's the
> Maximum size limit for a pistol mag. and in order
> to be able to change mag's between rounds, you
> have to have at least one hand free for every
> weapon you're firing, so No 8 pistols per
> round.Maximum of 4 pistols.
> But considering the specalized nature of the
> rounds, I'd have to rule that even with an
> extended clip, You can only have 5 rounds in each
> Mag.

Beautifully put. Now that's GM'ng. Make the players earn it. Amen. No Monty Hall'ng. I like it. This is why I prefer my players to earn their Power Stunts vs. just having them already. I've refused/rejected many Ãœber-Powerful Characters Sheets from my table when ever a new player comes to my table with some notion of being able to start out with over 150 power stunts in their arsonal and that's not including their Racial Bonuses and Weapons. Chrono, you're totally welcomed to game at my table if you're ever in AZ.

Oh, one more thing on the guns. I have a 9mm that can hold up to 17 rounds in a single mag.

Nice. I've never seen one that held more than 16 in the magazine.

Thanks Ragnarok, that means a lot to me coming from you.

"I have a 9mm that can hold up to 17 rounds in a single mag."

that's cause you're stateside.. Up here, I've never seen one with more than 15 rounds, but then again Canadian gun laws are a lot different than state gun laws, but that's just one more reason to visit the states more often I guess. Up here long guns and rifles are more the norm than handguns...

Yeah, this is the exact gun I own.Glock 17 9x19

My apologies for the evil pop ups with that link. I didn't realize it was going to do that until after I posted it and wasn't able to edit it in time for it not to do that.