I think the lifting amounts (mainly at normal human levels) in the game are not very realistic. I created a table illustrating a proposed house rule for lifting feats (attached). I use the clean and press which corresponds to lifting as described in the game (pick something up off ground and lift over your head) and I added deadlift (pick something up off ground up to waist level).

Jeff

it took me a while to process thats all in lbs and US (short) tons!

The red roll for a dead lift could be slightly higher if you like (1,500lbs is the world record at the moment) unless you take the stance that such 1,400lbs cant be exceeded by an unmodified human (chemical enhancement anyone?)

but whats your justification for the other numbers? incredible is usually put at 10 tons isnt it? and so 50 tons in the case of a successful red roll

lastly I do not see the pressing need to have a separate lift weight for each colour of roll, the -3CS for no roll, and +1CS for a red is quick and easy in game. looking this table up would slow things more often than not i suspect

The current record for the deadlift is 1155 lbs

The current rules state that you can lift over your head 1 rank higher if you get a red result. This might be okay in regards to to superhuman levels of strength but for the Feeble to Excellent range I think that it is a little wonky. I basically changed it so that you can lift your current rank lifting capacity on a red feat, not one rank higher like it is in the current rules. So the most Captain America could lift over his head even with a red feat would be 800 lbs. This is still an incredible amount of weight to clean and press. Captain could also deadlift 1400 lbs on a red feat, which probably could loosely translate into flipping over a small car.

This lines up more with "reality" and I don't think it is a change that breaks the overall game mechanics.


Jeff

NikMak Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> it took me a while to process thats all in lbs and
> US (short) tons!
>
> The red roll for a dead lift could be slightly
> higher if you like (1,500lbs is the world record
> at the moment) unless you take the stance that
> such 1,400lbs cant be exceeded by an unmodified
> human (chemical enhancement anyone?)
>
> but whats your justification for the other
> numbers? incredible is usually put at 10 tons isnt
> it? and so 50 tons in the case of a successful red
> roll
>
> lastly I do not see the pressing need to have a
> separate lift weight for each colour of roll, the
> -3CS for no roll, and +1CS for a red is quick and
> easy in game. looking this table up would slow
> things more often than not i suspect



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/12/2015 06:15AM by 212019156.

212019156 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This lines up more with "reality" and I don't
> think it is a change that breaks the overall game
> mechanics.


There are other game systems... and books other than comics... that I would use if I was that concerned about reality. Captain America is a poor example of confining someone to normal limits because he's a super soldier superhero and should be able to exceed realistic expectations on occasion

I mean, if this works for you, great. But I agree with NikMak in that this would complicate and slow down regular play, in addition to my own concern of taking away the occasional superheroic feats & feel of street level heroes.

I stand corrected on the world record (I should check my facts before posting rather than relay on memory - mea culpa!)

I understand your reasoning on the lower reank levels, but you have also significantly reduiced the higher rank levels - doe sthis fit the standard marvel universe that well? as Thrud says, not sure marvel is the game to model realism; wild talents or gurps supers may be a better game for that but if you and your enjoy Marvel that way, fair enough

I don't think its really a game breaker. I guess I have been lifting for years and the strength levels are weird. Say I have good strength, meaning according to the normal rules on a yellow feat I can press 400 lbs above my head. If I try really hard (get a red feat) I can press 800 lbs above my head. I think the actually world record is around 580 lbs so a normal human even world class shouldn't be able to lift close to 800 lbs.

Even weirder, a world class lifter in Marvel rules would probably have an Excellent strength meaning if he tries really hard (red feat he could press 2000 lbs over head.

As far as Captain America goes you could just up his strength from Excellent to Remarkable.

i agree, if you want to force marvel to be a more realistic game; have you considered your new systems impact on the cannon characters and what they do in the comics, or are they no longer factor - are these rules not intended for the wider marvel universe - for this rule set?

212019156 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As far as Captain America goes you could just up
> his strength from Excellent to Remarkable.


Not to mention a whole bunch of other published characters whose Strength would then have to be re-examined and possibly modified. Seems easier to leave things as they are and presume in a world like Marvel that street level heroes and villains can occasionally find (minorly) superhuman reserves of Strength in times of need.

Not a big deal. Just tinkering. Maybe an alternate way of handling it would be to insert some ranks: 1 between Typical and good, 1 between Good and Excellent, and 1 between Excellent and Remarkable.

The lower end of the spectrum lacks some granularity in my opinion.

There's things lacking all over the place, but that seems to be by design for the sake of simplicity. For example, skill progression seems somewhat lacking in that you have a skill and it modifies a primary ability by +1CS for FEAT rolls in that skill... and the only way to get better is to increase the relevant Primary Ability. So someone who is of above average intelligence (Good Reason) but wants to be a genius with computers either has to settle for effectively Excellent reason with computers or becoming smarter all around by increasing Reason... or get the Ultimate Skill power for Computers.

But that's because the game is more about powers than it is about skills. Skills are there to help flesh out a character, but their impact is limited. It's streamlined for simplicity, to speed up play and have more fun. Again, there are other game systems that handle realism better than Marvel does, but they're usually a bit (or a lot) more complicated and can slow down the action.

On the other hand, the streamlined nature of Marvel does make easier to modify, in my opinion. Everyone has house rules, and I think the simplified approach to Marvel's design lends well to house rules designed to make the game play differently. Changing Strength at the lower end of the weight scale could work, but you have to make sure you're either accounting for all of the NPCs that it would affect or just cut them out by using Marvel for something other than a Marvel Comics specific world.

I think adding new ranks in at the lower end of the scale is a bad way to go. The only place one could argue that there is room for new ranks would be in the upper ranks between Amazing and Unearthly, and that has been done. Personally, I don't need or use those extra ranks, but at least they can fit within the existing structure neatly enough. At the low end, the range of rank numbers is already pretty slim, and I think narrowing them further to accommodate new ranks would be too tight.

But, in the end, find a solution that works for you and run with it.

After reading the responses I agree for the most part. I think the system as is is pretty damn good. Its power curve is exponential which it has to be to cover Marvel power level spread.