I agree it would have to be legally right but also morally right: These are "heroes" after all. If they win a raffel or sweepsteaks for a new car, someone "normal" who bought a ticket without the benefit of such a "gift" would lose when they might have won.

But if Wolverine worked as a bodyguard, doing very expensive free-lance jobs in order to allow him to do charity work, I wouldn't have a problem with that.

There are degrees, too: Using the power Detect Metal to search for collectible coins is differnt (to me) than draining 1 percent of the gold from the Atlantic. An ounce of gold to repair a Quin Jet? Maybe. I think it has to be JUSTIFIED, not RATIONALIZED.

(well, if my hair doesn't look nice, citizens won't trust me as much, so I need a $200 hair cut:rationalizing. I've managed to snap an undercover invitation to this black tie affair where Dr. Doom will be, and there's no way I can afford a tuxedo, so if I can just earn a few hundred dollars using my powers, I can complete my mission: Justified.)

Mark Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I agree it would have to be legally right but also
> morally right: These are "heroes" after all. If
> they win a raffel or sweepsteaks for a new car,
> someone "normal" who bought a ticket without the
> benefit of such a "gift" would lose when they
> might have won.

Both those are on the muddy side though, as what's legal isn't always morally right and vice versa. Plus morality has some gray to it as there is no uniform code of morality even if some like to say that there is. We've seen that in the flames that occurred in the Resources thread and others regarding what makes a hero. For the sweepstakes for example, consider the hero being similar to Destiny in seeing the future and sees that the winner is just going to waste the money but the hero will be able to do much better with the money why shouldn't the hero use his powers to come up the winner instead?

> But if Wolverine worked as a bodyguard, doing very
> expensive free-lance jobs in order to allow him to
> do charity work, I wouldn't have a problem with
> that.

I imagine thought that Wolverine would blow someone's liability insurance into orbit given his general way of dealing with things. Plus what if he was just doing it because he wanted a snazzier car or motorcycle to tool around in rather than charity work?

> There are degrees, too: Using the power Detect
> Metal to search for collectible coins is differnt
> (to me) than draining 1 percent of the gold from
> the Atlantic. An ounce of gold to repair a Quin
> Jet? Maybe. I think it has to be JUSTIFIED, not
> RATIONALIZED.

So where do you think that would be a rationalization? That gold floating around in the ocean water for example belongs to no one and isn't an environmental requirement so why shouldn't someone be free to use their power of Collection to gather it up for some modest financial gain? For which btw it'd be far easier to hang around the Comstock load and collect the silver permeating the landscape, or in the various places where the Gold Rushes have occurred in the Wild West days and collect the gold that was missed given their generally sloppy collection methods. There's no reason why the silver or gold must remain where it is if the hero has the powers that would allow easy gathering of it.

> (well, if my hair doesn't look nice, citizens
> won't trust me as much, so I need a $200 hair
> cut:rationalizing. I've managed to snap an
> undercover invitation to this black tie affair
> where Dr. Doom will be, and there's no way I can
> afford a tuxedo, so if I can just earn a few
> hundred dollars using my powers, I can complete my
> mission: Justified.)

I think Janet Van Dyne would disagree with you regarding the hair styling as not being justified. Particularly since if you collected and sold some gold for that $200 you've now introduced an ounce of Gold into the system that will be used in jewelry or even electronics manufacture and you've provided the hair salon with $200 of income that the owner and stylist will partake of that will be spent on necessities like groceries or gas for their vehicles benefiting the economy.

well stark uses his inventions to stay rich live a playboy life style and fund his iron man armors. I always wondered why forge dosnt do the samething, even if he didnt want to start "forge industries" he couls still do very well for himself working for stark enterpirses and help make the world a better place by inventing things that help humanity, or he could start his own company and sell his inventions make billions and help fund the mutant nation

After reading through this thread, I could scarcely disagree with Capo more. For one, it demonstrates a slavish devotion to an advancement system that was pretty flawed to begin with, and an astonishing willingness to subordinate story events to the system that is designed to simulate them. To be sure, I strongly believe it should work the other way around.

Say for shits n giggles, the judge allows the characters to play the lottery. Take the biggest gaggle of 10-sided die you can hold in both hands and toss 'em. Get all 10s on the roll, congratulations you won! The odds are ridiculous, but so are the real life odds. It would seem Capo would reject that out of hand, as the player has not "spent the karma" for it.

Another example, say in the course of an adventure a hero saves the life of Tony Stark or Bruce Wayne, and in gratitude and recognition for her abilities offers the hero a cushy job with a great salary and benefit package. No karma was spent, the character earned it with valor and smart decisions made in play. From his stated position in this thread, Capo would disallow that.

One more example, in play the hero discovers a stash of money, valuables, or equipment that has no ownership that can be traced. Or he captures such, or a base of operations (gotta love supervillains and their propensity for building cool hideouts!) from the enemy and no one has legal authority to say it's not his to keep. Again, no karma spent. Again, it would seem Capo would veto it.

And I wholeheartedly disagree. Such slavish devotion to the advancement system (spend the karma for it or you can't have it!) leads to the Judge playing god, putting the deus ex machina kibosh on in-game events to make them conform to the system numbers. It reminds one of the sitcom approach, where no matter what happens in an episode the writers will inevitably pull some sort of reversal in order to reset to the status quo by episode's end. It gets transparent very quickly, and leads to stale storytelling that feels like the characters are running on a perpetual treadmill. No thanks, if that's the way you want to run your game I think I'll pass.

And that's not even addressing the huge flaws in the advancement system in my opinion. I was never pleased with the concept of spending karma to advance, it seemed a strange holdover from the DnD concept of XP that most RPGs have never been able to break free of. I didn't like the DnD experience system or character levels, I never felt they were remotely realistic. Couple that with the problem of Karma being spendable (and in a tough campaign, always in short supply just to survive!) and the system is just plain broken.

No offense, Capo, but I wouldn't sit in a game you ran if that's the way you do things.

Something that the rules don't really support either, plus the game modules support the comics and more realistic approach. In the Timewarp trilogy it covers creating a PC hero group and explicitly refers to simply giving the new group some starting equipment as part of the package, like a vehicle and/or communication devices and simply suggests being careful not to be too lavish in the gifts (which is a very subjective position in any case). Plus by the end of the first module your group has acquired its own time machine which given its likely stats would be a Shift X Resource cost item that they end up earning as part of their adventure.

In the Gang Wars trilogy by the end of its first module you see the question of the heroes acquiring the villains' primary plot device and adding it to their own arsenal of goodies. No question of how they can't have it without spending karma or making a Resource feat for it (unless it's damaged/destroyed and they're trying to construct their own copy from studying the remains). Just suggests some possible plot problems, like the government or other groups coming after them for it and whether or not they're better off simply destroying it (although in the event they're simply trying to reproduce it there's no reason for anyone to have a clue that they're up to that unlike if they actually cart off the working device to set up elsewhere).

Much of the thrust of the Nightmares of Futures Past modules has the various PC having to salvage or steal much of what they have because as mutants or other superhumans they're effectively unable to function in society and have to make do (and a good place to have a character with the Creation powers and/or the various inventive genius powers to get the best of things).

dacat75 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> well stark uses his inventions to stay rich live a
> playboy life style and fund his iron man armors. I
> always wondered why forge dosnt do the samething,
> even if he didnt want to start "forge industries"
> he couls still do very well for himself working
> for stark enterpirses and help make the world a
> better place by inventing things that help
> humanity, or he could start his own company and
> sell his inventions make billions and help fund
> the mutant nation

I think Forge has been shown having possible business Resources, thanks to his government contracts (such as his creation of the Neo-Neutralizer that eliminated the Dire Wraiths and their homeworld). The main reason he doesn't end up going the Iron Man route is simply because the writers won't or aren't allowed to write him that way. Just like "Reed Richards Is Useless' Forge too is subject to that trope. He's not allowed to engage in world-benefiting actions at the normal human level like creating pollution-free cars that run on ambient energy because it would change things too much.

Nightmask Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> dacat75 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > well stark uses his inventions to stay rich live
> a
> > playboy life style and fund his iron man armors.
> I
> > always wondered why forge dosnt do the
> samething,
> > even if he didnt want to start "forge
> industries"
> > he couls still do very well for himself working
> > for stark enterpirses and help make the world a
> > better place by inventing things that help
> > humanity, or he could start his own company and
> > sell his inventions make billions and help fund
> > the mutant nation
>
> I think Forge has been shown having possible
> business Resources, thanks to his government
> contracts (such as his creation of the
> Neo-Neutralizer that eliminated the Dire Wraiths
> and their homeworld). The main reason he doesn't
> end up going the Iron Man route is simply because
> the writers won't or aren't allowed to write him
> that way. Just like "Reed Richards Is Useless'
> Forge too is subject to that trope. He's not
> allowed to engage in world-benefiting actions at
> the normal human level like creating
> pollution-free cars that run on ambient energy
> because it would change things too much.

Well Forge IS infected with that genetic mutation disorder that causes it victims to believe they have human rights, sometimes to the point of resisting the giant killer robots that have been constructed to help them find a place in society. So, perhaps Forge prudently keeps a low profile.

Dead Sidekick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well Forge IS infected with that genetic mutation
> disorder that causes it victims to believe they
> have human rights, sometimes to the point of
> resisting the giant killer robots that have been
> constructed to help them find a place in society.
> So, perhaps Forge prudently keeps a low profile.

The X-men from what I've heard haven't bothered to act like they're part of the human race in years, and Forge wasn't that low profile when he created a weapon that permanently depowered superhumans and was written naive enough to believe the government would only use it for noble purposes instead of quickly start using it willy-nilly at every opportunity. Plus creating a corporation like Stark's only to pound all that technology and money into helping normal humans would be a marketing dream for mutants like himself. Rather than people talking about 'evil muties' they'd be going 'man he created that fFone and it was so cheap and affordable and my new car saves me a ton of money I can waste on myself, mutants are GREAT!'.

I think Heroes for Hire and their immitators (Heroes for Hires? Heroes's for Hire?) are a good model. Yes, if you you're a millionaire and you think your chef has been stealing the silver, it's going to cost you to hire Heroes for Hire. But what if you're a neighborhood mom who does not allow her child to use their mutant ability to predict which horse will win at the track for financial gain? And the kid is kidnapped by gamblers? Then Heroes for Hire is going to take the job pro bono.

So using your powers to make a living, I'm ok with that. Using your powers to make yourself filthy rich, I'm not so crazy about that. Perhaps using it too much, it won't be there when you really need it (the power). Or maybe the PC spends so much time accumulating wealth that they aren't adventuring any more -- and thus are no longer in an rpg. I think there has to be a balance. And when, instead of making a living using powers, one tries to increase their Rec rank, I agree with FireBomb: Save your Karma for increasing your Rec rank.

I always scratch my head at the attitude that a hero that starts poor or average rather than wealthy must remain at that level and if he aspires to wealth he's not really a hero but the guy that's always been wealthy like Stark is just fine being a hero and filthy rich. Certainly we've many examples of RL corporate greed like Enron and Worldcom (and the failure of the system to protect the real victims or require recovery of every penny that the corporate thieves have taken, leaving them as penniless as they deserve instead of leaving them comfortably wealthy) but a PC hero should be able to aspire to using his powers for wealth like everyone else. Having the wealth isn't inherently evil nor is seeking it, particularly if one is seeking it not just for himself but to be able to better help others.

Why shouldn't a hero be able to use his powers to provide wealth so he can help rebuild the damage caused by some super-villain? He's certainly not going to be able to help a victim with just Typical or Good Resources, that kind of thing requires Remarkable+ Resources to help out. It's certainly heroic of him to replace the house or car wrecked in a super-hero battle if he can. Even if he can't do that every time helping where he can is still a good deal.

I have no problem with players gaining wealth and being a hero. But I also agree with Firebomb, Capo,
and several others in that if you want to increase your wealth/resources permenantly then pay the Karma
for it. It is how the game is set up and has rules set up for it. Put part of all Karma gained into an increase
pool to increase your Resources and I would have no problem with you using your powers to immediately
increase your Resources, as it would be getting payed for and you would have to be roleplaying it...It would
not be jst handed to the player just because they have a power that, potentially, allows the accumulation of
greate wealth.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/06/2010 05:53PM by Gene.

Except the Resource rules are inadequate and aren't set up to handle a range of valid means of increasing Resources or acquiring them without the use of karma or Resource feats. It's absurd that you could capture someone like Bin Laden yet be told your Resource rank doesn't increase any in spite of the massive reward on his head 'because you have to spend karma to use it'. That's simply not logical nor rational. Nor is it when a character has the powers that will let him make a bicycle being told he has to make a Resource Feat when he's not buying any materials to make it he's creating them all himself. Molecular Conversion+Molding+Hyper-Invention, you can custom create all the parts from scratch or close to it for a car, so why exactly would this character be restrained by a Resource Feat when he IS the resources?

It's a quite extensive list of things that are completely valid and rational options that the rules don't encompass and must be corrected for, otherwise you end up with cases where Madison Jeffries can't make a toy car in a game when he's been shown creating star ships in the comics from surrounding materials, or Firestorm (classic) being unable to transform trash into cars or other items even when shown to have created a wide range of things before they started screwing with his abilities to depower him.

Nightmask,

Please dont take offense at the following suggestion...If you dont want to play in a game that has so many "broken" rules, than why dont you just stick to freeform games? I have seen several online in the past that would suit the majority of your characters style/power levels and the fact that you dont seem to care for a lot of the limitations that are inherrent with playing the game as listed in the books. Again, not meaning to offend just trying to make a suggestion to allow you a game you would enjoy more.

Nightmask Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Except the Resource rules are inadequate and
> aren't set up to handle a range of valid means of
> increasing Resources or acquiring them without the
> use of karma or Resource feats. It's absurd that
> you could capture someone like Bin Laden yet be
> told your Resource rank doesn't increase any in
> spite of the massive reward on his head 'because
> you have to spend karma to use it'. That's simply
> not logical nor rational. Nor is it when a
> character has the powers that will let him make a
> bicycle being told he has to make a Resource Feat
> when he's not buying any materials to make it he's
> creating them all himself. Molecular
> Conversion+Molding+Hyper-Invention, you can custom
> create all the parts from scratch or close to it
> for a car, so why exactly would this character be
> restrained by a Resource Feat when he IS the
> resources?
>
> It's a quite extensive list of things that are
> completely valid and rational options that the
> rules don't encompass and must be corrected for,
> otherwise you end up with cases where Madison
> Jeffries can't make a toy car in a game when he's
> been shown creating star ships in the comics from
> surrounding materials, or Firestorm (classic)
> being unable to transform trash into cars or other
> items even when shown to have created a wide range
> of things before they started screwing with his
> abilities to depower him.

My question would be, why wouldn't the creating-from-nothing or converting-from-something-else power's rank substitute for the Resource rank in such situations? Seems rather logical to me, and the less "re-inventing the wheel" to house rule it, the better.

Say you've got a elemental conversion character that for some reason needs the customary 100 pounds of gold to retain the services of a ninja assassin. 100 pounds of gold would cost him roughly $2 million dollars, which is walking around money for someone with at least Amazing Resources. In other words, someone with an Amazing rank in Resources would have to roll a Yellow Resources FEAT to cough up $2 million dollars for the 100 pounds of gold.

But our Elemental Converter works part-time at Wal-Mart for Poor Resources, and can barely Red FEAT to cover rent on his Typical cost apartment much less afford the gas for his beat up car to drive to earn this pay and the Karma for keeping the commitment of adhering to his work schedule between long nights of saving the universe.

But, he has Amazing Elemental Conversion power, and thusly can convert 50 pounds of dry air into 50 pounds of gold per round with a Green FEAT. Get all nerdy with your ideal gas law calculators and calculate the molecular mass of dry air at room temperature (28.97, heh) and we know the molecular mass of gold (it's atomic number, 79) so we know the volume of air needed is going to have to be around 2.72 times the volume of gold to be produced (79 / 28.97). We know 50 pounds of gold will have a volume of roughly 60 cubic feet, so we need around 163 cubic feet of dry air to work with. Go a little further with the realism and he realizes to himself "hey, if I turn 163 cubic feet of dry air around me into gold, I'm going to likely crush or suffocate myself, or at least cause severe damage to my cheap apartment and dang it I hope to get my security deposit back." So he decides to step outside, and convert the air one area away into gold, at a diminished rate of 40 pounds per round.

Long story short, it takes our Elemental Converter around 3 rounds to create the gold he needs to rent a ninja.

And then.... word spreads through his low rent neighborhood that there's a golden goose in Apartment E, and he gets kidnapped by the mob he was hiring a ninja to protect him from.




Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/07/2010 01:50AM by Dead Sidekick.

Gene,

We all end up on this forum because we love the MSHRPG, and one of the reasons we're here is to discuss the problems we have or see in the game and provide suggestions on how to deal with those problems. I try to help everywhere I can to provide suggestions and ideas to help enrich people's games, such as with the Experts thread for those who like to provide that 'you're really playing in the comics' feeling getting to encounter various NPC known to exist in the MU. I tend to look up the parts that people shy away from or have a stigma attached to bringing them up because these are areas most in need of discussion and removing that stigma from. One of those stigma areas is Resources and the influence of powers on them. The fact the rules aren't comprehensive enough to cover such things properly requires considerable dialogue to address all the points, because let's face it in the comics heroes are given things all the time or acquire items from opponents (heck the FF have acquired star ships and other items as loot captured from enemies). Which scenario makes more sense, hero rescues oil sheik's son is gifted with a new car that he heads off to enjoy, or hero rescues oil sheik's son is gifted with a car that he is told he can't use until he makes a resource feat to cover the gift he was just given?

As far as my 'style' of play goes, I can think of only a few people here on CMF who've been in any game with me long enough to see that and those that have know I don't showboat or try and steal the limelight from anyone and focus on everyone working together towards a more rewarding and enjoyable RP experience. I have not needed to be nor have I been (and even in at least one case have been the weakest of the group) the most powerful as that's not my concern as I've stated in the past. If a game's not making everyone happy I'm not happy and want to improve the level of happiness in general. So I broach the taboo subjects such as Resources and powers to strip them of that silliness and get some decent dialogue going and hopefully end some of the stale RP that's likely going on and show that it doesn't have to be in that rut.

Because power rank substituting for Resource rank generally isn't going to properly represent the actual benefits. In your example (for which btw it'd be fairly absurd to convert the air into cold when you can hit any dumpster in the area for trash to convert instead, including your own trash) a Feeble Rank Elemental Converter while it would take him longer would still even with a number of bad rolls still create that same amount of gold in less than an hour. The power rank really isn't a big determiner of things in that regard and it's really more what you're creating and how much you need of it. Feeble rank guy trying to build an Adamantium-reinforced headquarters isn't going to be contributing anywhere near as much as he'd really need to to see a particularly big Resource savings for example.

Someone else with Mechanical Creation on the other hand could create a laptop (if he's got enough health) bypassing the Resource feat completely. Laptop's aren't cheap yet he certainly should have the use of it since he did create it and odds are it isn't going to exist more than a few days at most, but if he gets lucky and red feats he certainly should be getting to keep it. He gave up part of his life force (i.e. health) to create it after all, something far more precious than cash. The Creation powers are so limited in fact (and even DEM readily admits those limitations are the result of his ex-wife's interference and not part of his original intent) that you're not going to create anything bigger than a laptop without going months or years trying until you cleared enough red feats to assemble it. A one ton car with a Remarkable power rank will likely take you 2 years of trying to MAYBE create, something you could likely have bought outright with your Resources far faster.

Way too much effort goes into assuming unrealistic nightmare scenarios for powers that often have never been even allowed in a game by anyone to make those wild claims in the first place. Such as a PC creating stuff that he's by all rights without any justification for being able to create it in the first place. The main one being characters creating Adamantium or Vibranium when while the player might know it exists the PC has zero reason to know either exists and definitely zero reason to know the molecular configuration to create either and his ability to learn it being solely in the hands of the GM.

It's a completely rational and to be expected deal that a PC if he can will at least consider making money off of his powers. Heck Spider-man pre-OMD made much of his living with his photographs of his super-heroic exploits, making money off of his powers. There's no justifiable reason to prevent him doing so. There might be logical consequences depending on how he's doing it but there is nothing otherwise against his being a hero and using his powers to make himself wealthy too. It's also a given that you can spin everything to have some kind of negative consequence if you work hard enough, plenty of people make a living looking for the cloud to tarnish the silver lining. You use your healing powers on someone to remove their diabetes and you've now denied the pharmaceutical company the profit they make off of his insulin purchases and what the rest of the medical profession makes off of him. So you should leave him to die an early miserable death so that they can profit off of his misery? Reed Richards has a cure for acne, something that humiliates and in some cases permanently scars those who have it. He withholds it so the quack cures sold by the drug companies remain on the market so they don't lose profits, is that heroic? No, he's profiting off of leaving people to suffer. If we allow him to profit for that certainly the healer ought to be able to profit as well, or the converter.

I have to agree with Nightmask on this topic. I don't GM Marvel but I do GM other games and have played or ran many systems. I find that there are always times when you have to bend or even flat out destroy rules in order for the game to fun, realistic and at least reasonably balanced. That is why the only universal standing rule of gaming is that the GM has the last say. In the Marvel games I play in our GM handles resources mostly by the rules, if you want a resource increase you gotta pay the Karma. However he is not blind to the fact that things that happen in the game can affect resources without Karma being spent. Typically what he does is give characters a temporary resource bump that will last until the enough money has been spent to burn it off. He does not take resource ranks into account at all when dealing with loot gained in the course of the hero's being heroes. If said loot is actual cash he would again do a temporary resource bump, afterall what hero, through legal and moral means is going to gain enough cash reward to make a permanent change in his life/lifestyle.

On a seperate note I ahd a character called Mol-E-Q, who had several of the matter creation/control powers, roled up out of the UPB. He was insanely powerful becasue of the talents I choose for him along with the string of connected powers. He started his own "hero" organization dedicated primarily to repairing environmental damage, stopping environmental disasters, and clean-up. He didn't make any real money personally for himself but the organization he set-up did. He ahd hero's with various powers that could be used to help on staff or on call all over the Americas. He also ahd a legal and business team working to gain government and UN grants to cover the expenses of moving and coordinating the hundreds of heroes and norms that worked to prevent loss of life and ecological damage due to natural or man-made disasters. If he was short of cash he would just produce a small amount of gold and mold it into bars. Enough to cover expenses but not enough to flood the market.

You know, I just realized an interesting use for the temporary versions of powers like Elemental and Molecular Conversion. Not a particularly legal use but still quite fascinating as you can use it for smuggling things like drugs. You simply convert the drugs into a legal substance (that cocaine really is flour now) and after it makes it through customs and to your headquarters it converts back into the drugs you shipped when the time limit wears off. Such temporary power durations would be quite useful in such cases of moving things legally by making them not illegal items where the authorities would detect them.

Can't see if this was brought up but the Telepath with Psychology talent would be awesome in dealing with mental disorders and helping treat people for psychological issues. You could earn big bucks for such fabulous results, being able to really cure people instead of dragging things out to milk it for money like many psychiatrists do. Add in Criminology talent and you could prove instrumental in helping all but the worst criminals overcome their criminal behavior and go straight, proving a massive boon for the public directly and indirectly.

Internal Limbo: The character engages in competitive eating contests seeking after the cash or prizes in such events. He opens the limbo portal in his mouth or throat so that everything he consumes instantly passes into the limbo instead allowing him to seemingly eat endless amounts of food (also allows him to win all those stupid beer guzzling competitions since he can put the funnel into his mouth with the end going into the limbo letting it all pass harmlessly into the limbo instead).

Gateway: The character can do similar to the Internal Limbo character, creating a mini-gateway inside his mouth so that the consumed materials go to some other location letting him easily and rapidly consume anything required to win.

Digestive Adaptation: Lets the character easily win those 'I dare you to eat this' contests, such as super-hot chili concoctions that require wavers to be signed before you can even eat them. You can easily make good money this way, particularly around the sorts who can't help but gamble on such stupid contests as you can easily consume anything (and best off that lack of a sense of smell or taste means you don't even have that discomfort to worry about).

Quote
Nightmask
You know, I just realized an interesting use for the temporary versions of powers like Elemental and Molecular Conversion. Not a particularly legal use but still quite fascinating as you can use it for smuggling things like drugs. You simply convert the drugs into a legal substance (that cocaine really is flour now) and after it makes it through customs and to your headquarters it converts back into the drugs you shipped when the time limit wears off. Such temporary power durations would be quite useful in such cases of moving things legally by making them not illegal items where the authorities would detect them.

Also useful when you're hired to get people from point A to B over millions of miles of Space. You have an awesome ability (if your duration is high enough), to put people into stasis! Just turn em into Diamond, or light weight Titanium (better for transport). Maybe Polycarbonate (just a little heavier than water Per Cubic Foot, at 74lbs PCF). Most people take up less the 6 cubic feet of volume (likely 5CF), which puts the total weight at about 375-440lbs of plastic. Still kinda weighty for space travel...
But Maybe 'Diamond Aerogel' may be both strong enough And light enough to make a Molecular Converter of the living, a Very useful (and VERY WELL PAID) crew member.

Never mind that you could (at least temporarily change asteroid matter, or mars dust, or moon rocks, into fuel for your rocket. You'd be a boon to the space age, for whoever was willing to pay you (and not kill or subjugate you.. Esp if you're a mutie).


Of course, the STANDARD VERSION of temporary MC: Molecular Conversion 'Temporary' only lasts Reason Rank turns before reverting, but your target is put into suspended animation. This makes it impossible to pull off the above as is, but This was an intended negative so it granted you a +1CS to make up for it. But What If you didn't really care for that bonus?
Could you then just opt out and say "sure it is temporary, but I gave up on the +1CS so that it would last Reason Rank Number 'Hours' instead of Rounds"?
This seems a fair and realistic as all heck fire trade off, and seems to be the most common type of temporary MC found in the books.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2014 08:08PM by Steeler49er.

I have never seen the difficulty or need for penalties to be required for having a high resources in the marvel game. If anything, resources should be easier to get in a comic world as opposed to harder. There are easily a dozen heroes that each of us could ramble off the top of our heads who have insane ammounts of resources at thier disposal.

Even the powers such as elemental and molecular conversion and creation as they give (albiet) temporary boosts to resources they SUGGEST a limit of +3cs as to avoid the notice of criminal elements by using your powers. That does make some level of sense, though if one had the above powers and was an inventor the +3cs shouldnt necessarily apply az you are not putting said resources out in the "public" for comsumption or altering the market in any way. You are just using the powers for making a personal device.

But that is another topic...

Charactets should (i think) be encouraged not severely penalized if they use thier powers (and abilities) for personal financial gain. Powerman and ironfist use thier powers to support themselves, so does Tony Stark and Reed Richards(as hier reason is as much of an ability as thier armour or ability to stretch). Bruce Wayne uses Wayne Enterprises to fund his crusadebas does oliver queen and marc spector. There are definite comic book precidents for using your abilities for money making purposes.

Quote
Chronomancer
I have never seen the difficulty or need for penalties to be required for having a high resources in the marvel game. If anything, resources should be easier to get in a comic world as opposed to harder. There are easily a dozen heroes that each of us could ramble off the top of our heads who have insane ammounts of resources at thier disposal.

Thoroughly agree.
Just look at how well Trinity/Aberrant delt with superhmans gaining Ungodly Resources, and it Never once was a game breaking issue for anyone. It's all in the 'other players' and ST/GM/DM/JUDGES heads to think otherwise.

Steeler49er Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have never seen the difficulty or need for
> penalties to be required for having a high
> resources in the marvel game. If anything,
> resources should be easier to get in a comic world
> as opposed to harder. There are easily a dozen
> heroes that each of us could ramble off the top of
> our heads who have insane ammounts of resources at
> thier disposal.

> Thoroughly agree.
> Just look at how well Trinity/Aberrant delt with
> superhmans gaining Ungodly Resources, and it Never
> once was a game breaking issue for anyone. It's
> all in the 'other players' and ST/GM/DM/JUDGES
> heads to think otherwise.

Should check out my comprehensive look at Resources Thread ( [www.classicmarvelforever.com] ), I attempted to cover as much as I could come up with regarding Resources, Resource ranks, and how various powers and talents can or would most likely alter them.

Artifact Creation: Now here's a creative way to make money with this power, since it can create copies of almost anything including non-living copies of living things (the example given is making a copy of a chicken, while it's dead it cooks up just fine). So you use it to copy ancient, vintage wines to determine if they're still good by sampling the copy thus verifying whether or not it's still worth anything. Or alternatively you can simply create these perfect copies of such vintage wines, verify that they're worth buying, and sell them in the black market for such. This may or may not be a bit of a karma loss (since you're selling a real product providing exactly what they wanted it isn't technically criminal) but would make one quite popular and could be used for testing/verifying other things as well.

Nightmask Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Artifact Creation: Now here's a creative way to
> make money with this power, since it can create
> copies of almost anything including non-living
> copies of living things (the example given is
> making a copy of a chicken, while it's dead it
> cooks up just fine). So you use it to copy
> ancient, vintage wines to determine if they're
> still good by sampling the copy thus verifying
> whether or not it's still worth anything. Or
> alternatively you can simply create these perfect
> copies of such vintage wines, verify that they're
> worth buying, and sell them in the black market
> for such. This may or may not be a bit of a karma
> loss (since you're selling a real product
> providing exactly what they wanted it isn't
> technically criminal) but would make one quite
> popular and could be used for testing/verifying
> other things as well.

Very nice idea. Giving me an idea for a low-level villain, maybe an informant for the good guys.

Steeler49er Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have never seen the difficulty or need for
> penalties to be required for having a high
> resources in the marvel game. If anything,
> resources should be easier to get in a comic world
> as opposed to harder. There are easily a dozen
> heroes that each of us could ramble off the top of
> our heads who have insane ammounts of resources at
> thier disposal.
> Thoroughly agree.
> Just look at how well Trinity/Aberrant delt with
> superhmans gaining Ungodly Resources, and it Never
> once was a game breaking issue for anyone. It's
> all in the 'other players' and ST/GM/DM/JUDGES
> heads to think otherwise.

Ditto that, again. I've never been bothered by how rich or resourceful a character is, either as a fellow player or as a GM.

Life Detection: You can use this power to help locate injured people in a disaster, as well as determine if anyone's still alive to rescue. An invaluable power in such situations and can help in managing resources more effectively in an emergency when you can go 'okay there are two people alive over there but I'm not detecting anyone alive way over there'.

Enhanced Sense (Taste): In case it wasn't mentioned earlier, taste testers are in high demand in many fields from coffee to tea to even ice cream. You could quickly become in demand due to your exceptional and discerning palate and make a comfortable living as well as provide excuses to travel the world and be in areas where your heroic skills might be in need rather than having people wondering why you're always in these out-of-the-way areas at the same time your heroic alter-ego is. Much like Clark Kent being a reporter provided a good cover to explain why he was in the area so people weren't too suspicious if/when Superman appeared.

Catalytic Control: You can actually be a successful fire-fighter with this, since you can shut down the chemical reaction of the fire as well as neutralize the toxic byproducts. Indeed anywhere there's a toxic spill you'd be invaluable in keeping it from poisoning the environment until it's safely contained by preventing the reactions that would hurt or kill everything around.

Water-Breathing+Water-Freedom: Not only are you helpful in exploring the ocean's depths but when it comes time to do underwater work you're ideal for the job. Even if the job would require wearing protective gear (can't very well breathe crude oil after all) you'd still be immune to things like the Bends and able to work longer than anyone else.

Body Adaptation: Also useful for ocean exploring and underwater-work plus being able to adapt to a toxic environment would mean you'd even be able to adapt in the case of dealing with trying to say cap a leaking oil pipeline.

When I'm the judge in a campaign, I will allow characters to permanently increase their resources through the use of powers and/or talents if they spend time roleplaying the effort. I won't force them to spend karma on advancement because they are actively making it a story element.
On the other hand. If a player wants to treat resources Like any other stat and simplyspend karma to advance it, I would. Be OK with that too, as long as it is given an 'in story' reason .

I'd be OK with most of the examples given. Some may have karma losses , if they are criminal in nature .

LamiaMortis Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I'm the judge in a campaign, I will allow
> characters to permanently increase their resources
> through the use of powers and/or talents if they
> spend time roleplaying the effort. I won't force
> them to spend karma on advancement because they
> are actively making it a story element.
> On the other hand. If a player wants to treat
> resources Like any other stat and simplyspend
> karma to advance it, I would. Be OK with that too,
> as long as it is given an 'in story' reason .
>
> I'd be OK with most of the examples given. Some
> may have karma losses , if they are criminal in
> nature .

What examples do you have issues with and why?