Okay, I got it! The ultimate origin. There's this guy right, one day somethin bad happens to him so he starts workin out, after about a month he says "Yeah I'm ready!", buys some nunchuks and a mask goes off and get himself killed or seriously injured. His adventures lasted maybe 3 issues before he got messed up. Then another person in another city does the same thing. This keeps happening with different people in various places but none are successful.

In Marvel, superheroes/villains are very common so a series about people who live around these super types and start thinking they can make a difference would be interesting. Some of them would actually get a chance to fight a hero/villain and be messed up on national TV news. I know they have the KickAss movie but they could take it further with multiple people in a wide variety of circumstances and backgrounds.

Each person's adventures could be about 3 or 4 issues then move on to someone else. Here's some ideas for characters.

1. The security guard who wants to teach them skateboarding punks a lesson but gets himself into real trouble when some armed thugs think he really has powers.

2. Supermodel/Martial arts expert succesfully beats bank robber but decides to give up superheroin after getting all her front teeth knocked out.

Origins are everything. So many wonderful stories just waitin to be told.

Maybe not as serious as what you are suggesting but would/could this guy be in your story line?

Double D.D.

Fellupthestairs Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Maybe not as serious as what you are suggesting
> but would/could this guy be in your story line?
>
> Double D.D.


Aw man! LOL

Now that's the ticket!

It would be somethin different anyways.

you do have to wonder in a marvel or dc universe how many normal people get killed trying to be "kick ass" type heroes.Like the guy who jumped off the building in that movie.or even kick ass himself almost did the first time he tried to stop a crime. Thinking of another thread, how many expert marksmen tired to put on a costume and go out with a bow only to be shot to death by a crackhead with a gun. Maybe a few get lucky stop a few muggers then get cocky and try to stop a real villian like sabertooth and get thier guts ripped out.

geekgirl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> you do have to wonder in a marvel or dc universe
> how many normal people get killed trying to be
> "kick ass" type heroes.Like the guy who jumped off
> the building in that movie.or even kick ass
> himself almost did the first time he tried to stop
> a crime. Thinking of another thread, how many
> expert marksmen tired to put on a costume and go
> out with a bow only to be shot to death by a
> crackhead with a gun. Maybe a few get lucky stop a
> few muggers then get cocky and try to stop a real
> villian like sabertooth and get thier guts ripped
> out.

Well back in 'the good old days' at DC after introducing the meta-gene idea they showed a wannabe hang-out of people who'd come down sick as a result of the Dominator meta-gene bomb and had crude costumes and were waiting on their origins. One's regaling the other about a guy who decided to 'speed things along' as it were and shoved a fork into a toaster and as the other guy's giving out various electric-based super names for what the guy became the punch line was of course 'he was electrocuted'.

In a backstory for Extinctioners you see a newly empowered character against the backdrop of a long letter she's written and sent to a family member about her life had changed and she was going to go out and do good deeds and the like. Just like the prior story as you're seeing the last panel as she finishes the letter the backdrop is a newspaper story about where she'd died trying to stop a crime.

So what did happen with that power armor Captain America wore for a while during his 'my SS serum is breaking down and killing me?' phase? Since it provided his body with roughly similar physical abilities to his non-degraded form it could prove a useful start point for a hero or villain. The plans for it are probably also available from somewhere. Seems like at least a nice starting point power armor for a character.

old gods or spirits such as the native americans worshiped could be a good origin. the are mostly unexplored in the marvel universe but have been shown to exist. Your character could be one that wants to be remembered and sets about the mortal world to be a hero much like thor or hercules. power levels could be in any range and you could base your powers on what type of god/spirit the person was. Maybe not all gods are as powerful as the asgardians or olympians or if you wanted a high powered campain you could make one just as powerful as thor.Spiderman would have been seen as a spider god to ancient people. One of the guys in our current campain that is is in a world ruled by doom and the asgardians and olympains have fallen with most the other majpr gods of the marvel universe a player made the character Kaiti that is a bear god of the Haida tribes of north america. Not much information could be found about him other than he was married to a volcano goddesss. this left the player with plenty of options to make his character into what he wanted. Being a bear god he decided the character was going to be a bear like man. the way we came up with is stats was to take an average bear from the marvel handbook and used the agmentation chart to increase its stats. aslo gave him retarded aging and the ability to comuniocate with animals and summon/control bears iwthen a 100mile radius. What we got was a solid mid power level character that fit in with the campain we are running nicely.
there are several websites that give list of gods and given how most these gods are long forgotten due to people handing stories down by wrod of mouth instead of written word players are free to create a rich back story.

There was one spider-man character that I think was given spider-man-like powers through magic. I forget his name though. The image I remember seeing of his had him sticking with his back to a wall and crouching like spider-man has sometimes and he's in black suit pants and I think coat, but I do remember he was bare footed and he had hairy feet tops.

rileyV Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There was one spider-man character that I think
> was given spider-man-like powers through magic. I
> forget his name though. The image I remember
> seeing of his had him sticking with his back to a
> wall and crouching like spider-man has sometimes
> and he's in black suit pants and I think coat, but
> I do remember he was bare footed and he had hairy
> feet tops.

If you're talking about Ezekiel while he used magic to become a spider-totem like Spider-man since he wasn't chosen he eventually reached the point where things were coming due as only one person could be the totem and as a result he died while trying to sacrifice Peter in his place. So it's not a good route to go unless you're okay with a character that's going to end up dead in a year or two of game-time as the Lord of Spiders comes calling to reclaim your stolen powers.

If you don't mind the 'big head in a hoverchair' look the platform that Modok once used to turn Banner's love interest at the time briefly into a female counterpart to him still exists I do believe. All you had to do was toss someone onto it and it quickly spit them out as a Modok, and could reverse it fairly easily as well. You could have someone who goes around a normal human most of the time and in secret is a super-genius. You could even consider having it create uplifted animals, perhaps as a result of a mouse or fox or somesuch having stumbled into the place after it was abandoned and the platform being someplace it walked and it got modified as a result, with differences based on it being intended to upgrade a human and not an animal.

Nightmask Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you don't mind the 'big head in a hoverchair'
> look the platform that Modok once used to turn
> Banner's love interest at the time briefly into a
> female counterpart to him still exists I do
> believe. All you had to do was toss someone onto
> it and it quickly spit them out as a Modok, and
> could reverse it fairly easily as well. You could
> have someone who goes around a normal human most
> of the time and in secret is a super-genius. You
> could even consider having it create uplifted
> animals, perhaps as a result of a mouse or fox or
> somesuch having stumbled into the place after it
> was abandoned and the platform being someplace it
> walked and it got modified as a result, with
> differences based on it being intended to upgrade
> a human and not an animal.


for some reason this made me think of pinky and the brain cartoon...lol

House of M could be an interesting backstory for a mutant character. You were a mutant living in the House of M altered reality and when things got changed back to normal there was a glitch in the process for you and you didnt change back. So from your perspective mutants ruled the world and somehow reality got warped to the actual marvel universe and you set out on a crusade to find out how things got changed to this horrible world that mutants are an endangered species and hunted like animals and humans are the ruling class.

geekgirl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nightmask Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > If you don't mind the 'big head in a
> hoverchair'
> > look the platform that Modok once used to turn
> > Banner's love interest at the time briefly into
> a
> > female counterpart to him still exists I do
> > believe. All you had to do was toss someone
> onto
> > it and it quickly spit them out as a Modok, and
> > could reverse it fairly easily as well. You
> could
> > have someone who goes around a normal human
> most
> > of the time and in secret is a super-genius.
> You
> > could even consider having it create uplifted
> > animals, perhaps as a result of a mouse or fox
> or
> > somesuch having stumbled into the place after
> it
> > was abandoned and the platform being someplace
> it
> > walked and it got modified as a result, with
> > differences based on it being intended to
> upgrade
> > a human and not an animal.
>
>
> for some reason this made me think of pinky and
> the brain cartoon...lol

Which would be quite amusing in a game, people underestimating them and having it bite them on the backsides as a result.

The character is a pawn of the Grandmaster, having been given similar or identical powers to an existing hero or villain as part of yet another of his twisted games. Perfect for the player who'd like to play a canon hero or villain but doesn't have what it takes to actually play that character (he's all about the powers/skills than the personality/morals ), so the PC starts out as a Grandmaster pawn, perhaps even without the player knowing initially as events are in play and he (along with the rest of the group) have no idea what's up. Could even be a common origin for an entire PC group, they're all empowered/created by the Grandmaster and just don't know it and finding that out is part of what the group's initial storyarc is comprised of (and they may never figure it out).

Has the legacy hero (or villain) angle been explored yet? Grandchildren of characters from WW2 heroes and villains and all that fun stuff?

Thrudjelmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Has the legacy hero (or villain) angle been
> explored yet? Grandchildren of characters from
> WW2 heroes and villains and all that fun stuff?

Not that I'm aware of, the closest is simply someone finding a particular hero's or villain's gear and starting up as a new agent of change, like acquiring Goblin tech and the Goblin formula and starting up a new career but not as the Green Goblin but something else (like Hobgoblin did).

Well then, let's review the pages of the Golden Age edition of the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe.

• Angel (Thomas Halloway) had slowed aging for awhile (maybe Feeble-ranked Longevity) and the Cape of Mercury which allowed him to fly. A nephew or other distant family member of Halloway's might have inherited both his cape and longevity... or, seeing as he has no known family, perhaps he has an illegitimate child... who may have other power(s) inherited from the mother.
• Black Fox had no known powers, but he had gadgets. Perhaps someone could revive the Black Fox identity with their own updated versions of his gear, or perhaps they found Robert Paine's "Fox Cave" full of his old crime-fighting gear.
• Blue Diamond had super strength, durability, and speed. He had an unnamed wife and no reference to children... but who's to say there wasn't a dalliance while he was away from home fighting Nazis.
• Destroyer (Roger Aubrey) had no apparent powers but retained the strength and vitality of a man half his age when he got old, so maybe there was a hint of untapped power there... maybe a low-level mutant, who knows. No known relatives, but he's a man... it wouldn't be a big stretch of the imagination to think he may have sired a bastard child somewhere along the way.
• Dr. Druid... no, wait... I think Marvel already gave him a familial legacy in recent years.
• The Fin... looking for a half-Atlantean with history? The Fin is still around, apparently due to his sword giving him super strength and extended lifespan.
• Human Torch is an android created by Dr. Phineas Horton and James Bradley. He has two brothers (Volton and Vision) and a Cousin (Tara), and only one of them shares his flaming powers. One more android creation of Horton and/or Bradley as either previously untested prototype or subsequent creation wouldn't be a big stretch. Even more likely is that someone else copied the designs and made their own android, possibly making improvements. Another avenue to explore is that the android Human Torch's blood has some unusual properties, having been responsible for granting Spitfire her speed.
• Sun Girl has no apparent powers or relatives, but she did have a special weapon --her sunbeam ray. There's also some confusion as to whether there was more than one Sun Girl or if the one was just very long-lived. She disappeared after the 40s... maybe she could have passed her weapon and training along. Perhaps she's very long-lived or even immortal and still around today, ready to pass her stuff on to a son or daughter.
• Terror was created when he crashed outside a laboratory and got amnesia. Dr. John Storm decided to experiment on the injured amnesiac (clearly a mad scientist) with a serum distilled from the brain fluid of his super strong & ferocious dog, Rex. The process also called for bombarding him with a specific frequency of radio waves, and Terror gained superhuman strength, stamina, speed, and reflexes when his adrenaline started pumping. If Dr. Storm retained samples of his serum and/or notes about the process, someone could attempt to recreate the the Terror's abilities today.
• Toro, the original Human Torch's partner, had similar abilities to his mentor but his were mutant in nature. In addition to the fire stuff, he apparently aged very slowly. He had a wife, Ann, though no known children. Perhaps he could be someone's long-lost grandpappy.

A nice list, and while I don't think you'd find bastard sons or daughters of any of those characters I can see them having secret children that they sought to protect from their various villain foes (not uncommon for heroes in that age to send children off to be raised by others without a clue to their legacy). Plus I think a certain amount of 'don't even imply they had sex!' puritanism back then kept many heroes even those happily married strangely childless (with the FF being a rare exception), so not too hard to think that the heroes really did have children with their spouses and we were just kept in the dark about it for some reason.

Anything is possible. Dr. Druid was never married, but he had a son (Sebastian) whose mother was apparently not quite human.

Thrudjelmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anything is possible. Dr. Druid was never
> married, but he had a son (Sebastian) whose mother
> was apparently not quite human.
>
>
>
> [static.comicvine.com]
> /109227/2824093-1409950_95_secret_warriors_23.jpg
>
>
> You are, Sebastian Druid. You are.

Given the poor quality of writing anymore and going for shallow shock value even though most children aren't bastards you'd never guess that from all the out-of-wedlock children you end up seeing out of various characters. Even characters that due to background wouldn't be engaging in such behavior (Wolverine at least it's believable given his extended age and being from an era where child brides was the expected norm). Everyone's a slut breeding indiscriminately in the comics anymore, especially any with very reserved or religious prohibitions against it, like Wolfsbane. *sigh*

Still given how limited the background material on various heroes are from the earlier eras many have every reason to have children or grandchildren all nice and legal who don't know about their heroic (or villainous) past and only some trigger event (like another legacy seeking revenge on the family of the hero) brings out the truth.

Thrudjelmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nightmask Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well pre-OMD Spider-man had several encounters
> > with Loki as a result of protecting one of
> Loki's
> > children (a daughter) and Loki made it clear he
> > had many children spread around the world over
> the
> > centuries.
>
> Just curious about this. When you say several
> encounters, are you referring to the handful of
> encounters spread out in the 2 issue story arc
> between Amazing Spider-Man #503 and #504? Or did
> Loki and Spidey get together again after that
> story? Because I remember at the conclusion of
> 504, Loki gave him a rune which could summon Loki
> instantly if Spider-Man needed his help
> (presumably with something concerning Loki's
> daughter, Tess Black), but I can't remember if
> anything came of that later on.

Spider-man had at least three encounters I believe with Loki (including kicking back on a building eating NY style hot dogs), and they oddly got along fairly well (other than when Loki was upset at that Chaos Goddess rejecting him and favoring Spider-man since of the two Spider-man was more linked to pure chaos). They had such good potential there to have Spider-man end up in the unusual position of 'frenemies' or similar with Loki, where even though Loki's a villain Spider-man's buds with him and ends up when he's got magical problems actually calling up Loki instead of Dr. Strange. Such a great story hook wasted.

Nightmask Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Spider-man had at least three encounters I believe
> with Loki (including kicking back on a building
> eating NY style hot dogs), and they oddly got
> along fairly well (other than when Loki was upset
> at that Chaos Goddess rejecting him and favoring
> Spider-man since of the two Spider-man was more
> linked to pure chaos). They had such good
> potential there to have Spider-man end up in the
> unusual position of 'frenemies' or similar with
> Loki, where even though Loki's a villain
> Spider-man's buds with him and ends up when he's
> got magical problems actually calling up Loki
> instead of Dr. Strange. Such a great story hook
> wasted.


But were those three encounters all contained within the all-too-brief 2-issue story arc? Because I definitely agree, this was great potential wasted. In fact, when Spidey's life got all turned upside down in the One More Day story arc, I was desperately hoping that he'd call on Loki for a little help. Better to make a deal with the God of Mischief than the Devil you know... especially when the mischief deity owes you a favor and the Devil is just a malicious, evil-incarnate screw-head.

Thrudjelmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well then, let's review the pages of the Golden
> Age edition of the Official Handbook of the Marvel
> Universe.
>
> [*]Angel (Thomas Halloway) had slowed aging for
> awhile (maybe Feeble-ranked Longevity) and the
> Cape of Mercury which allowed him to fly. A
> nephew or other distant family member of
> Halloway's might have inherited both his cape and
> longevity... or, seeing as he has no known family,
> perhaps he has an illegitimate child... who may
> have other power(s) inherited from the mother.
> [*]Black Fox had no known powers, but he had
> gadgets. Perhaps someone could revive the Black
> Fox identity with their own updated versions of
> his gear, or perhaps they found Robert Paine's
> "Fox Cave" full of his old crime-fighting gear.
> [*]Blue Diamond had super strength, durability,
> and speed. He had an unnamed wife and no
> reference to children... but who's to say there
> wasn't a dalliance while he was away from home
> fighting Nazis.
> [*]Destroyer (Roger Aubrey) had no apparent powers
> but retained the strength and vitality of a man
> half his age when he got old, so maybe there was a
> hint of untapped power there... maybe a low-level
> mutant, who knows. No known relatives, but he's a
> man... it wouldn't be a big stretch of the
> imagination to think he may have sired a bastard
> child somewhere along the way.
> [*]Dr. Druid... no, wait... I think Marvel
> already gave him a familial legacy in recent
> years.
> [*]The Fin... looking for a half-Atlantean with
> history? The Fin is still around, apparently due
> to his sword giving him super strength and
> extended lifespan.
> [*]Human Torch is an android created by Dr.
> Phineas Horton and James Bradley. He has two
> brothers (Volton and Vision) and a Cousin (Tara),
> and only one of them shares his flaming powers.
> One more android creation of Horton and/or Bradley
> as either previously untested prototype or
> subsequent creation wouldn't be a big stretch.
> Even more likely is that someone else copied the
> designs and made their own android, possibly
> making improvements. Another avenue to explore is
> that the android Human Torch's blood has some
> unusual properties, having been responsible for
> granting Spitfire her speed.
> [*]Sun Girl has no apparent powers or relatives,
> but she did have a special weapon --her sunbeam
> ray. There's also some confusion as to whether
> there was more than one Sun Girl or if the one was
> just very long-lived. She disappeared after the
> 40s... maybe she could have passed her weapon and
> training along. Perhaps she's very long-lived or
> even immortal and still around today, ready to
> pass her stuff on to a son or daughter.
> [*]Terror was created when he crashed outside a
> laboratory and got amnesia. Dr. John Storm
> decided to experiment on the injured amnesiac
> (clearly a mad scientist) with a serum distilled
> from the brain fluid of his super strong &
> ferocious dog, Rex. The process also called for
> bombarding him with a specific frequency of radio
> waves, and Terror gained superhuman strength,
> stamina, speed, and reflexes when his adrenaline
> started pumping. If Dr. Storm retained samples of
> his serum and/or notes about the process, someone
> could attempt to recreate the the Terror's
> abilities today.
> [*]Toro, the original Human Torch's partner, had
> similar abilities to his mentor but his were
> mutant in nature. In addition to the fire stuff,
> he apparently aged very slowly. He had a wife,
> Ann, though no known children. Perhaps he could
> be someone's long-lost grandpappy.

thrud, nice thanks for adding the possible backgrounds.
i used a real long shot had a character background of a woman who had bandaged up captain america after a really nasty fight and had some of his blood on a bandages,she prayed over his body all night a rose up the next morning and left for the fight . The bandages has a soft glow,so when her village was threatened to be retaken she wrapped her self in the bandages and seemed to gain near superhuman abilities and could create a golden glow and weapons that were better than the real thing.her descendents have used the bandages to fight oppresion,villainy and uphold good, no one of evil intent can wear bandages only the pure of heart.this family legacy has been handed down and each generation seems to add to the capabability of the bandages.

Thrudjelmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nightmask Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Spider-man had at least three encounters I
> believe
> > with Loki (including kicking back on a building
> > eating NY style hot dogs), and they oddly got
> > along fairly well (other than when Loki was
> upset
> > at that Chaos Goddess rejecting him and
> favoring
> > Spider-man since of the two Spider-man was more
> > linked to pure chaos). They had such good
> > potential there to have Spider-man end up in
> the
> > unusual position of 'frenemies' or similar with
> > Loki, where even though Loki's a villain
> > Spider-man's buds with him and ends up when
> he's
> > got magical problems actually calling up Loki
> > instead of Dr. Strange. Such a great story
> hook
> > wasted.
>
>
> But were those three encounters all contained
> within the all-too-brief 2-issue story arc?
> Because I definitely agree, this was great
> potential wasted. In fact, when Spidey's life got
> all turned upside down in the One More Day story
> arc, I was desperately hoping that he'd call on
> Loki for a little help. Better to make a deal
> with the God of Mischief than the Devil you
> know... especially when the mischief deity owes
> you a favor and the Devil is just a malicious,
> evil-incarnate screw-head.

No, they occurred over different issues and yes Loki does actually tend to keep his word (in fact it was often a failing of his team-ups with Dormammu that Loki would be keeping his word and end up betrayed by Dormammu). So I could see Loki having helped provide a cure for Aunt May gratis, maybe even giving her a bit of a super-empowering event (and maybe the only way Loki could cure her would be power her up, not like that origin isn't common, as it is).

Power up Aunt May? Sure, just get her a bite of one of Idunn's golden apples of immortality. Not only should she have survived the wound, but she could live a lot longer with a little less stretching of credibility of the frail old woman who should have been dead 20 years ago from old age.

Looking through this old thread I don't think Dr. Bong's technology has been mentioned. While treated like a joke he's got some impressive technology including a Genetic Accelerator to rival that of the High Evolutionary and teleportation technology. Someone could end up augmented as a result of his technology, perhaps by stumbling across one of his labs or due to Dr. Bong using them as a lab rat.

After coming across an issue from the Midnight Sons storyarc I had a chain of thought that left me realizing that the process that created Morbius is actually in the court records from his trail for mass murder that Jennifer Walkers (aka She-Hulk) successfully defended him from in her first She-Hulk run. Jennifer used it for a court demonstration where a rabbit was subjected to it and promptly killed its mate in a bloody attack for the Jury to show Morbius had no control over his actions. So anyone who decided to access those court records could potentially duplicate the process. You could see another tragic anti-hero struggling to focus his hunger on the criminal element, or a villain that embraces it. Maybe even a cult of vampire wannabes turning themselves into vampires like Morbius to create an ongoing threat for a hero group.

That seems like something the court might want to seal off from public access simply because of the danger associated with it. Maybe not knowledge of the process, but the specifics of how to recreate it. I mean, if someone figures out how to build a dirty bomb from house hold items and gets dragged into court for trying, I doubt that they would allow the specifics of how to create said bomb would be allowed to be freely accessed.

On the other hand, someone working within the court might be able to sneak access either for their own purposes or perhaps as a favor to someone else, and then the info could wind up all over the internets. Come to think of it, I wonder if there's an equivalent to Wikileaks in the Marvel Universe where people anonymously reveal whatever secrets behind superhuman transformation & technology is on even secret court and government records.

Thrudjelmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That seems like something the court might want to
> seal off from public access simply because of the
> danger associated with it. Maybe not knowledge of
> the process, but the specifics of how to recreate
> it. I mean, if someone figures out how to build a
> dirty bomb from house hold items and gets dragged
> into court for trying, I doubt that they would
> allow the specifics of how to create said bomb
> would be allowed to be freely accessed.
>
> On the other hand, someone working within the
> court might be able to sneak access either for
> their own purposes or perhaps as a favor to
> someone else, and then the info could wind up all
> over the internets. Come to think of it, I wonder
> if there's an equivalent to Wikileaks in the
> Marvel Universe where people anonymously reveal
> whatever secrets behind superhuman transformation
> & technology is on even secret court and
> government records.

Even in RL things in sealed records don't stay hidden as expected, and we're talking the comics here where a lot of characters have origins due to someone stealing information that was supposed to be restricted or was stored in some forgotten file. Plus I don't believe the ship where Morbius finalized his project and transformed himself was destroyed so whoever found the ship would have found all his records along with the machinery and other items necessary to make it work that they could have used or sold off to others.

The crazed anti-communist Captain America of the 1950s for example found the information for the Super Soldier Serum minus the details of the radiation bath in some dusty CIA files that he used to convince his superiors to remake him and someone else as the new Captain America and Bucky. That information is still available for that matter although we know there's that problem of insanity without the radiation treatment (and it's hard to be sure if conventional psychiatric treatment can really cure it, as Nomad has bounced between hero and villain several times over the course of his career).

That record would probably end up being sealed and handed to someone such as Project Pegasus or SHIELD. I can't imagine the fed would allow it to just stay in the local state courthouse. Than again, do the original groups like Project Pegasus still exist in Marvel? Now that I mention it, I can't seem to recall seeing them for awhile now.