geekgirl Wrote:
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> Beauty contest hulk
> wins hands down, how could you not love those big
> green muscles and that constant growling....lol

I'm gonna have to take your word on that one lol

Okay, since the debate has begun over at ComicVine, I'd like to hear thoughts from CMF on this match up as for who would win and why.





[www.comicvine.com]

It's death by a thousand squirrel bites for the bat. MWUAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Batman is allowed prep time, but how does he prepare to battle a cute, innocent hero like Doreen? Personally, I just don't think he has it in him to beat her. Meanwhile, some people are arguing the heights of both characters victories over cosmic-level foes. Batman may have killed Darkseid with his "magic bullet," but would he really resort to that against someone like her?

its a trick question. doreen would fan girl over bats so much that if it came to a confrontation, he would already be completely dismissive of her and would be caught totally off-guard. but it wouldn't actually come to a fight. people like squirrel girl are the reason he does what he does; he wouldn't fight her, he'd gas or tranq her.

Brotherless_one Wrote:
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> its a trick question. doreen would fan girl over
> bats so much that if it came to a confrontation,
> he would already be completely dismissive of her
> and would be caught totally off-guard. but it
> wouldn't actually come to a fight. people like
> squirrel girl are the reason he does what he does;
> he wouldn't fight her, he'd gas or tranq her.

At which point a freak breeze will blow it back at him while simultaneously blowing a stick into his face to knock off his face mask protection resulting in him gassing/tranqing himself leaving her victorious.

Nightmask Wrote:
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> At which point a freak breeze will blow it back at
> him while simultaneously blowing a stick into his
> face to knock off his face mask protection
> resulting in him gassing/tranqing himself leaving
> her victorious.

what exactly does that have to do with either character?

read closer.

Brotherless_one Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nightmask Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > At which point a freak breeze will blow it back
> at
> > him while simultaneously blowing a stick into
> his
> > face to knock off his face mask protection
> > resulting in him gassing/tranqing himself
> leaving
> > her victorious.
>
> what exactly does that have to do with either
> character?
>
> read closer.

Uh it has to do with Squirrel Girl's Lethal Joke Character status, where she takes down the most epic of characters in humiliating fashions off-screen. So Batman trying to take her out even by drugging her she'd have events go her way and he'd be the one going down.

doesn't trump "batman cheats"...which was the "it wouldn't come to a fight" thing. If it was a fight -as I flatout stated- doreen gets the win, clean and on panel, just like with Doom.

I hate Squirrel Girl so much.

I gotta agree with brotherless here, "batman cheats" makes me sick to my stomach, in much the same sense as punstarr's dislike of the same gimmick from squirrelgirl. They're both characters that "win" just because they are who they are regardless of the impossible.

So here is how the "fight" would go:
Two comics are released simultaneously with matching covers that each have one of the two coming out on top through the thickest pis you've ever seen.

for some reason, some people miss the fact that -canon or not- all squirrel-girl's off-panel victories are poking fun at discussions like these. just like the batman trope of him beating anyone with enough time to plan is a fan thing, not a real thing. "Batman cheats" isn't invoked nearly enough and when it is, it's rarely applied correctly.

The particular cheat in this scenario is that by not fighting, he wins. And if it's actually batman and not "fighting game character who happens to look like batman", fighting the closest thing to Dick Grayson's Robin since the silver age isn't something he'd take part in. Better to pretend to recruit her as an ally, slip her some kind of a mickey, then figure out who put the two of them in a live broadcast internet death match. If losing the fight makes the latter possible, then that's the plan. The objective is all that matters. winning the fight is just one way to accomplish it, and the least efficient one at that.

(yeah, I'm avoiding working on a paper right now...)

Here's another bout, Silver Surfer VS The Sentry.

Opinions?

How about the Sentry and Squirrel Girl kill one another and the Surfer watches?

Punstarr Wrote:
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> How about the Sentry and Squirrel Girl kill one another and the Surfer watches?


*throws Red Hulk in to be exterminated as well*

Are we talking about Sentry with reality warping powers that enables him to resurrect the dead or reform himself after the Molecule Man disintegrates him? Because I think that might trump the power cosmic. Otherwise, I'd give it to Silver Surfer.

I usually assume "best possible version" for each character. Even so I think Surfer might have the feats to take this one home.

Probably already been done, but I gotta ask anyhow. And it's probably buried in the other thread, so...

Rhino vs. Juggernaut.

Scarecrow71 Wrote:
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> Probably already been done, but I gotta ask
> anyhow. And it's probably buried in the other
> thread, so...
>
> Rhino vs. Juggernaut.

Rhino would get owned in humiliating ways.

Juggernaut is stronger and tougher than Rhino. Both are kind of dumb in the head, but Caine is powered by an elder god. Rhino is powered by high tech pajamas. If you're talking about Colossernaut, the power disparity gets even bigger.

See, I'm thinking that the winner of this one would depend on which one would be stupid first. Neither are very bright, and both are extraordinarily lucky.

I will give you that the odds favor Juggernaut. I mean, if he gets his hands on Rhino, that mechanical suit gets sent to the scrapyard almost immediately, if not sooner. And Juggy can't be stopped once he starts running. But, if Rhino can maybe catch him from behind a couple times?

Scarecrow71 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Probably already been done, but I gotta ask
> anyhow. And it's probably buried in the other
> thread, so...
>
> Rhino vs. Juggernaut.

You really need to be more clear, since there are some radically different versions of them. Classic/original versions it's Juggernaut all the way since Juggernaut is mystically augmented and Hulk class and Rhino at his best simply can't even come close to that level of power and since it would be pretty much a simple straight-up slug-fest Rhino can't hurt Juggernaut but the reverse isn't so so Rhino loses.

I am to understand that it is entirely possible for someone with enough strength to use Juggy's own momentum against him, leaving him vulnerable and unable to defend himself and/or escape. I believe Hulk and Thor have both done this. With his enhanced strength, wouldn't Rhino also be capable of this tactic? And if Hulk is smart enough to think of it, wouldn't Rhino also have that chance?

Just saying that it may not be as one-sided as you think.

Scarecrow71 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am to understand that it is entirely possible
> for someone with enough strength to use Juggy's
> own momentum against him, leaving him vulnerable
> and unable to defend himself and/or escape. I
> believe Hulk and Thor have both done this. With
> his enhanced strength, wouldn't Rhino also be
> capable of this tactic? And if Hulk is smart
> enough to think of it, wouldn't Rhino also have
> that chance?
>
> Just saying that it may not be as one-sided as you
> think.

Rhino's not even as intelligent as Juggernaut (outside of a oneshot 'flowers for algernon' story for him) and his basic tactics aren't much different than Juggernaut (charge and slam into a target, poor dodging ability, regularly tricked into running into things he didn't intend to charge). Plus Juggernaut doesn't have to defend himself, he's not vulnerable to mundane physical attacks like Rhino would have available. Trip him and jump on his back to pound him and he won't even notice it as he gets back up, even dropping him into setting concrete for a building foundation didn't hurt him just took him a while to get out.

I gotta agree here, Juggs is just in a higher class than rhino

the time jugs had sex with she hulk, rhino fought him and got beat pretty easy, but that may have been reconned away

Nightmask Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Scarecrow71 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I am to understand that it is entirely possible
> > for someone with enough strength to use Juggy's
> > own momentum against him, leaving him
> vulnerable
> > and unable to defend himself and/or escape. I
> > believe Hulk and Thor have both done this.
> With
> > his enhanced strength, wouldn't Rhino also be
> > capable of this tactic? And if Hulk is smart
> > enough to think of it, wouldn't Rhino also have
> > that chance?
> >
> > Just saying that it may not be as one-sided as
> you
> > think.
>
> Rhino's not even as intelligent as Juggernaut
> (outside of a oneshot 'flowers for algernon' story
> for him) and his basic tactics aren't much
> different than Juggernaut (charge and slam into a
> target, poor dodging ability, regularly tricked
> into running into things he didn't intend to
> charge). Plus Juggernaut doesn't have to defend
> himself, he's not vulnerable to mundane physical
> attacks like Rhino would have available. Trip him
> and jump on his back to pound him and he won't
> even notice it as he gets back up, even dropping
> him into setting concrete for a building
> foundation didn't hurt him just took him a while
> to get out.


So Hulk, who is less intelligent than Rhino, can come up with a way to defeat Juggernaut, but Rhino can't? Rhino and Hulk pretty much have the same tactic in combat - smash everything until it stops moving.

So while I respect your knowledge of the universe, I have to reject your statement that Rhino couldn't use the tactic I mentioned earlier because he's not smart. Hulk isn't a brainiac by any means; if he can use that tactic, then I don't see why Rhino couldn't.

Scarecrow71 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nightmask Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Scarecrow71 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > I am to understand that it is entirely
> possible
> > > for someone with enough strength to use
> Juggy's
> > > own momentum against him, leaving him
> > vulnerable
> > > and unable to defend himself and/or escape.
> I
> > > believe Hulk and Thor have both done this.
> > With
> > > his enhanced strength, wouldn't Rhino also be
> > > capable of this tactic? And if Hulk is smart
> > > enough to think of it, wouldn't Rhino also
> have
> > > that chance?
> > >
> > > Just saying that it may not be as one-sided
> as
> > you
> > > think.
> >
> > Rhino's not even as intelligent as Juggernaut
> > (outside of a oneshot 'flowers for algernon'
> story
> > for him) and his basic tactics aren't much
> > different than Juggernaut (charge and slam into
> a
> > target, poor dodging ability, regularly tricked
> > into running into things he didn't intend to
> > charge). Plus Juggernaut doesn't have to
> defend
> > himself, he's not vulnerable to mundane
> physical
> > attacks like Rhino would have available. Trip
> him
> > and jump on his back to pound him and he won't
> > even notice it as he gets back up, even
> dropping
> > him into setting concrete for a building
> > foundation didn't hurt him just took him a
> while
> > to get out.
>
>
> So Hulk, who is less intelligent than Rhino, can
> come up with a way to defeat Juggernaut, but Rhino
> can't? Rhino and Hulk pretty much have the same
> tactic in combat - smash everything until it stops
> moving.

Hulk is also equal to Juggernaut in physical strength and durability and from what I've seen all of Hulk's encounters with Juggernaut have been with far more intelligent versions than the classic Green Hulk (and actually if you look over the Hulk's history he's not stupid in combat and can figure out ways of dealing with opponents beyond just running at them and hitting them).

> So while I respect your knowledge of the universe,
> I have to reject your statement that Rhino
> couldn't use the tactic I mentioned earlier
> because he's not smart. Hulk isn't a brainiac by
> any means; if he can use that tactic, then I don't
> see why Rhino couldn't.

You really need to look at the history of both characters, Rhino's far less creative and far more inflexible in combat than any version of the Hulk and most versions of Hulk outside the classic Green version are far more intelligent than Rhino and even the classic Green version is far more adaptable in combat. Unlike the Hulk Rhino isn't shown being that intelligent or adaptable and doesn't even have strength enough to give Juggernaut pause. Colossus couldn't pull it off either and he was roughly at Rhino's level of strength at the time and HE had the benefit of intensive training with the X-men and being far more intelligent than the Rhino.

Rhino is presented as an idiot thug remember, like the Wrecking Crew. He doesn't even remotely think tactically or plan tricks or to use terrain to his advantage. Absorbing Man does a better job planning in combat than Rhino ever manages and he's no Rhodes Scholar either.

what if Kraven and the Punisher decided to hunt each other. both come fro very differnt backgrounds and both are very good at what they do. if one knew about the other first then it would be a clear victory but what if they both had time to prepare and knew the other one was comming, who takes it?

The whole squirrel girl vs batman thing reminds me of the cynical "whoever's comicbook sells best wins" type solution so often used in the earlier crossover battles.

Must be a MSH power in there somewhere- ability to add Popularity to Fighting or something.

@geekgirl

this is a solid match. Both of these guys are pretty similar in ability. Kraven might have a small numbers advantage but Punisher is way more talented and would probably take the win here in a good hard fight.