I was typing off the top of my head.
Looks like my morning thoughts were wrong. (Where the heck did I put the shortcut to the UPB pdf......)
When in conflcit with The Book, go with The Book.




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2011 01:25PM by DavidEMartin.

First time poster and I figured it would be as good a place as any: I was recently helping some players make new characters for a relaunch of my old MSHRPG game when it hit me. Can you list any practical uses for any of the Matter Control or Matter Conversion powers? They always seemed like such a stretch to make any of them fit.

Case in point: You start rolling up a PC, initial origin looks like it's going to be some kind of armor suit akin to Iron Man. Ok hmmm, roll roll roll.... Environmental Awareness... ok that works. Roll some more. Neat I got Armor skin! Ok that works. Another roll later... Yahtzee! Err....umm... Zombie Animation?

What are your thoughts on the power scaling system differances between Marvel and the Dc Products specifically the strength levels that a character possesses? As you worked on both systems what is your thoughts on what you would add to the Marvel system that Dc has and vice versa? I personally believe DC has always been more Cosmic level while Marvel tries to keep it more "Street".

What are your thoughts on the power scaling system differances between Marvel and the Dc Products specifically the strength levels that a character possesses? As you worked on both systems what is your thoughts on what you would add to the Marvel system that Dc has and vice versa? I personally believe DC has always been more Cosmic level while Marvel tries to keep it more "Street".

You've got that right. I was amazed and appalled at how relatively weak Marvel RPG-created characters are compared to DCH- or DCU-created characters. I think Grubb realized this when Mayfair's game followed his into release. That's why we have the two add-on clusters of Shift-X/Y/Z and Class 1000+. And even then, the upper levels are pretty much denied most characters.

On the other hand, following the DC rules exactly, one has a hard time creating ROBIN, let alone a major superhero.

What would I add to the Marvel rules? Hmm, mostly I'd change the scale. I'd erase the "real world" measurements for ranks and replace them with ones more, well, fantastic.

First time poster and I figured it would be as good a place as any: I was recently helping some players make new characters for a relaunch of my old MSHRPG game when it hit me. Can you list any practical uses for any of the Matter Control or Matter Conversion powers? They always seemed like such a stretch to make any of them fit.

I wrote 14 pages on the two Matter groups in question. Not sure what I can add. Admittedly some other systems probably just lump all 14 pages worth of powers and uses as two or three of their system's powers.

Case in point: You start rolling up a PC, initial origin looks like it's going to be some kind of armor suit akin to Iron Man. Ok hmmm, roll roll roll.... Environmental Awareness... ok that works. Roll some more. Neat I got Armor skin! Ok that works. Another roll later... Yahtzee! Err....umm... Zombie Animation?

Hmm, you have the makings of a Clive Barker character there, some kind of Deathlord or Necromancer. I see a character wearing armor made of formerly living, now reanimated flesh. For some dark reason the skinsuit gives the wearer the ability to animate and control the dead. Alternately, the skinsuit amplifies and directs the wearer's innate powers. The powers animate the suit as well, giving the wearer the enhanced stats he has in his super-mode. The Environmental Awareness gives the wearer knowledge of the location and condition of living beings, corpses, and Living Dead in his vicinity.
For an origin, I'd say the wearer either uncovered/translated some necromantic text that explained how to build the skinsuit --or-- he found the skinsuit that had been built and lost by another, more magically adept person. In the latter case, consider a Goth or Goth-wannabe or just somebody looking for a costume for a homemade horror flick who found this really gross, completely irresistible suit and put it on. And sooner or later, whoever really did make it will eithger want it back or will come with a bill.

Way back early in the millenium, someone posted the results of Random Character Generation, including Cyborg (Exoskeleton) and Crystallization and a request that readers see what they could do with it. Here's my response---

---

REGINA CARROLL

Regina Carroll was a product of Appalachia. Her kinfolk had lived in the hills near Crozet,
Virginia, for centuries. Unfortunately, the lack of other suitors for previous generations resulted in a
bit of inbreeding. Many Carrolls have the distinctive trait of pale, almost albino skin.
There was another long-dormant trait this accidental program of genetic reinforcement
produced, but I'm getting ahead of myself.
Like many mountain girls, Regina got engaged at a young age. Her parents died when she was
16 and, looking for new stability in her life, she married her boyfriend, Larry Shifflett. They moved
into a shack near his parents' place.
Regina was a hot-tempered girl with a lot of passions that were igniting as she grew up. One of
the passions turned out to be Larry's sister Corrine. When Larry walked in on Regina and Corrine, he
went nuts and threw her out of the house. Then he set about destroying her belongings. Corrine
helped Regina grab some of her stuff but there was no fixing that relationship.
Regina hitched a ride to Charlottesville in search of a new life. She didn't having much luck.
Not yet 18, she was having trouble finding legitimate work. She managed to avoid outright
prostitution but sometimes she came close. She finally discovered a source of cash income as a nude
model. Her exotic looks made her a favorite of some artists and photographers around the University
of Virginia.
The money kept her fed and clothed but she still depended on friends for a place to stay. Some
times she was a live-in model but she always moved on when the artist or photographer wanted a bit
more....
She was staying with Mary Beth, a sculptress in Luray, when she visited the Caverns there and,
well, something happened. Regina was looking at some quartz pillars when her body started to feel
odd. She later said the quartz was humming to her and her body was humming back. Then she
blacked out.
When she came to, she was naked. Her clothing was all around her, torn apart as if pierced by
dozens of blades. The tour guides who found her first thought she'd been assaulted. But when the
police couldn't find any trace of an assault and then learned her occupation, they assumed she had
destroyed her own clothing. She was given a citation for public indecency and told never to return to
the Caverns.
But after a month of increasingly vivid dreams, she went back. This time, when the quartz and
her body rocked in sympathetic vibrations, she kept conscious.... Her body seemed to stiffen, then
grow thick as if her skin were changing. Then her clothing exploded from her, revealing crystalline
plates that quickly flowed across her body. But despite its glassy appearance, the crystal garment
proved flexible.
As she explored her new garment, a security guard spotted her. Startled, she turned to face the
unexpected presence. And as she did so, the crystal on her left arm elongated into a sword.
Things did not quite go well with the guard, who had a bit too much of an imagination. Regina
got into a squabble that resulted in blows being traded. Regina was delighted to discover the crystal
armor protected her quite nicely and even seemed to make her as strong as the burly guard. And
having built-in weapons was useful in making the guard run away, holding up the slashed remains of
his uniform.
Regina managed to make it out of the Caverns, past two startled tour groups, through the gift
shop, and out into the Shenandoah countryside. She discovered that she could make the crystal armor
disapppear but that left her with the problem of making her way naked back to Mary Beth's studio. In
television shows, there was always a convenient load of laundry out drying.... no such luck. Good
thing she was small and could run fast.
Mary Beth was surprisingly understanding. She helped Regina explore the extent of her new
abilities. She even went checking her New Age connections for a possible explanation. A cross
reference to Blue Ridge folklore showed a tradition for crystal use in the area long before Yuppie
Wiccans got into quartz. The name Carroll came up a lot. When Mary Beth asked if these might be
ancestors, Regina admitted that there probably wasn't anyone in that area she was not related to or
descended from.
The guard's story of a "Crystal Woman from the Earth's Core!" made the tabloids. It might have
ended there as a rural legend except that Regina's escape was caught on Luray Caverns' security
cameras.
Regina decided it was time to move on. As much as she liked Mary Beth, she didn't love her.
But she didn't want to see her hurt and there were the stories of strangers wandering the backwoods.
Regina packed her backpack and started hitchhiking north. Her path was taking her right
towards D.C.....

ProphetX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> First time poster and I figured it would be as
> good a place as any: I was recently helping some
> players make new characters for a relaunch of my
> old MSHRPG game when it hit me. Can you list any
> practical uses for any of the Matter Control or
> Matter Conversion powers? They always seemed like
> such a stretch to make any of them fit.

Not seeing how things like Weather Control or Matter Animation would be seen as a stretch given how common they are shown being very useful in the comics. Same goes with the Matter Conversion powers, several characters (sadly all villains) have made use of Elemental and Molecular Conversion in their crime sprees and a hero could certainly make grand use of them as well. Being able to put out a fire by converting the burning elements into a non-flammable item for example is very useful as an example, or Disintegrating a bomb for that matter (heroes deal with bombs all the time).

> Case in point: You start rolling up a PC, initial
> origin looks like it's going to be some kind of
> armor suit akin to Iron Man. Ok hmmm, roll roll
> roll.... Environmental Awareness... ok that works.
> Roll some more. Neat I got Armor skin! Ok that
> works. Another roll later... Yahtzee!
> Err....umm... Zombie Animation?

I must say David's spin on this suggestion was fabulous.

No reason to argue the point as David gave a good example I hadn't thought of.

As for them being a stretch; we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm constantly faced with characters during creation that wind up with like 3-4 powers that can seemingly fit with little explanation only to wind up with Coloration or Weather control or something equally out in left field compared to what else was rolled up. Hence the question. This isn't to say that I haven't run into it with other powers from the UPB; it just means I seem to run into it more frequently with the aforementioned categories.

ProphetX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No reason to argue the point as David gave a good
> example I hadn't thought of.
>
> As for them being a stretch; we'll have to agree
> to disagree. I'm constantly faced with characters
> during creation that wind up with like 3-4 powers
> that can seemingly fit with little explanation
> only to wind up with Coloration or Weather control
> or something equally out in left field compared to
> what else was rolled up. Hence the question. This
> isn't to say that I haven't run into it with other
> powers from the UPB; it just means I seem to run
> into it more frequently with the aforementioned
> categories.

So you're really asking how does one attempt to justify everything under a common theme with certain powers not appearing to 'go with' certain other powers. I see that as a result of a mistake in concept that everything has to be justified as all stemming from a single source. Martian Manhunter's grab bag is a standard point of contention on that point, with the complaint that his powers don't 'fit' as if somehow only certain powers are allowed to go with certain other powers and if you don't put those powers together something is somehow wrong when it isn't.

ProphetX Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No reason to argue the point as David gave a good
> example I hadn't thought of.
>
> As for them being a stretch; we'll have to agree
> to disagree. I'm constantly faced with characters
> during creation that wind up with like 3-4 powers
> that can seemingly fit with little explanation
> only to wind up with Coloration or Weather control
> or something equally out in left field compared to
> what else was rolled up. Hence the question. This
> isn't to say that I haven't run into it with other
> powers from the UPB; it just means I seem to run
> into it more frequently with the aforementioned
> categories.

Finding an origin for powers that don't quite fit together is like... 60% of the fun for me. I've had a robotic Necromancer before... I made it so that his powers were created by nanobots invading the bodies of the dead and activating their brains giving them lesser functions.

The odd characters always end up being the ones most fleshed out when just randomly creating characters though, because often rather then having just one origin they can have many.

That is such a neatly gonzo idea !
ProphetX, as Kasz said, the fun and creativity can be in finding ways to tie powers together. It also helps make for unique characters.
Besides, every golfer who has a full set of clubs probably has two or three clubs in his bag he rarely uses.
Honestly, way too many Marvel characters are a cliche mix of damage resistance, enhanced strength, and enhanced fighting skills.
But if you feel you can't work with a given mix, fee free to toss a given power and roll up another one. I'm not going to be offended.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2011 06:24AM by DavidEMartin.

The protection that gives Energy Sheath is equal to Body Armor?

Thank you very much for taking questions......(love the UPB btw)
When working on the MSH game, did Marvel ever restrict you any way? Where there any ideas about the game that never made it? You mentioned the magic book needing some work was there anything else... say in the rules that bugged you?

The protection that gives Energy Sheath is equal to Body Armor?

Well, it's kind of a force field. Assume the intensity of the chosen energy somehow has a physically tangible effect on forces directed against the user. Flame melts weapons, sonics vibrate bullets to powder... whatever.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2011 04:06AM by DavidEMartin.

So it doesn't give you protection against raw damage?
Thanks for the answer

When working on the MSH game, did Marvel ever restrict you any way? Where there any ideas about the game that never made it? You mentioned the magic book needing some work was there anything else... say in the rules that bugged you?

The only restrictions I recall was when Marvel vetoed my design for the Four Freedoms Plaza interior, saying their writers would be responsible for doing that. They never did. Instead they cut-n-pasted the description of the Baxter Building, a 56 story building. This meant the Official Marvel description for the FFP is a 56 story building with 40' ceilings.
Grrr.........
You can read MY descrption in the online PDF of the Fantastic Four Compendium.

As for the Magic supplement, I just don't like the design philosophy of it. It reads too much like bad Aleister Crowley, which makes sense, as Lee and the other Dr S writers were probably cribbing Crowley too. MY idea of what a magic book should be:
Raw Magic - the basic classifications
Practitioner classes - wizards, seers, witches, necromancers, etc.
Spellcasting methods, techiques, and rituals - gestures, incantations, sigils, etc.
Magical Artifacts and Tools - wands, orbs, capes, etc.
Magical Beings and Entities - sprites, elementals, gods, etc.
and
Desired Results, which would be a big section pretty much recreating the UPB.

Okay, since this is Marvel, there should be a Glossary of Known Spells, which descriptions of their requirements, execution, and effects.




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2011 10:56AM by DavidEMartin.

Thanks for doing this thread! it is a great place where it is much easier to skip a bunch of discussion and speculation on what 'the books really mean' and go straight to the author.

1) Are you still working on the Ultimate Powers Cyclopedia? If so, and you still do not have the time to create .pdfs I would love to help.

2) The various vampire powers (Bio-Vampirism, Energy Vampirism, Magic Vampirism, etc...)in the epic UPB require constant feeding, or ..."they loose energy at an accelerated rate. Their rank numbers for Strength, Endurance, Psyche, and any Powers except Bio-Vampirism drop one point per hour. The ___-Vampire must feed in order to maintain his life". Next to some of the other powers in the book, this has always felt like a rather stiff limitation, and (correct me if I am wrong), but I don't recall an Marvel characters having to feed once an hour or start getting weak. Why did you choose to limit them in that fashion?

3) Magic - In the new system you created, all the spells take multiple rounds to cast based on the power rank. Why did you put that limitation on magic when powers do not have that limitation?

4) I am close to finishing the Ultimate Origins Book. I was wondering if you had ever created any additional origins for the Marvel system, and if so, would you be willing to either post their stats or PM them to me so I could include them in the book?

5) Question from a net-hack-publisher to a real published author; how many Marvel comics did you read (and which ones) when doing research for the book? I am curious because I often hit walls and dead ends when working on projects and wind up needing breaks. Additionally - if you ever suffer from writer's block, how do you fight though it?

To repeat all the others, thanks again for this thread. It is awesome that one of the authors from the Classic Marvel System takes the time to chat with us and answer questions. I tend to treat all your answers to posts in regards to rule questions and such as cannon in my games.

1) Are you still working on the Ultimate Powers Cyclopedia? If so, and you still do not have the time to create .pdfs I would love to help.

The UPC continues in fits, starts, and long comas. The swap to the new computer and operating system has been causing headaches as the new word processor won't open texts in the old format. That and the migration to the new computer caused way too many files to go into hiding. Apparently I was way too dependent on Shortcuts to get me to wherever the files were actually stored.

2) The various vampire powers (Bio-Vampirism, Energy Vampirism, Magic Vampirism, etc...)in the epic UPB require constant feeding, or ..."they loose energy at an accelerated rate. Their rank numbers for Strength, Endurance, Psyche, and any Powers except Bio-Vampirism drop one point per hour. The ___-Vampire must feed in order to maintain his life". Next to some of the other powers in the book, this has always felt like a rather stiff limitation, and (correct me if I am wrong), but I don't recall an Marvel characters having to feed once an hour or start getting weak. Why did you choose to limit them in that fashion?

Damned I know. Okay, not the answer you wanted. I was probably looking at what little writeups were already published on vampires and thinking of supervillian vampires like Sauron. Prior to feeding on Havoc, Karl Lykos was feeding on his physical therapy patients as they came thru his clinic.
The constant decline probably is a bit harsh, especially if you're trying to create a hero. And it probably would definitely end up with the Vamp waking up very hungry every night. Still.... it does provide drama as the Vamp must continually seek out new means to feed. (As opposed to the Twilight vamps who apparently never ever need to feed.)
Anyway.... oh damn..... Can't find a writeup on Sauron. You'd think he'd be in the Children of the Atom book ! Well, assume this as just an improvised example. Sauron starts off with Excellent Strength (16), Remarkable Endurance (26), and Remarkable Psyche (26). He's got 16 hours before he's in trouble-- 8 hours before his Strength drops to Typical, another 5 hours unit it drops to Poor, and 2 more until it drops to Feeble.
Okay, how about this for a revamp -- the numbers for the Strength, Endurance, Psycher, and all powers except the -Vampirism are pooled together. In Sauron's case, that's 68 points (Str+End+Psyche) plus the values for his powers. The combined pool loses one point an hour. That means, powers aside, Sauron has over five days before he loses to Aunt May in armwrestling.

3) Magic - In the new system you created, all the spells take multiple rounds to cast based on the power rank. Why did you put that limitation on magic when powers do not have that limitation?

Probably something I lifted from existing rules. But remember, I'm coming at this from five years of playing AD&D. Spellcasting takes a bit of time. And the bigger a desired effect, the more time it should take to unleash your mystic power.
Okay, Magic is, in the greater scheme of things, Olde Fashioned. It was the first way beings developed to Control Forces Beyond Their Ken and as such it has millenia of success against lesser forces. "Bows and arrows against the lighning" to quote the Artilleryman from War of the Worlds. But in the modern age, more efficient methods of Unleashing Hell have developed-- Superpowers and Ultratech. In terms of final results, Magic is just as powerful. But in a toe-to-toe duel, the Mage is knocked out in the first round.
Hmm, remember that all this is from a humanocentric point of view. Mages among more advanced lifeforms are going to be faster in their spellcasting. Gods and Godlings, for example.

4) I am close to finishing the Ultimate Origins Book. I was wondering if you had ever created any additional origins for the Marvel system, and if so, would you be willing to either post their stats or PM them to me so I could include them in the book?

Can't think of any offhand but I'll make a point to check your rough draft and see if I spot any holes.

5) Question from a net-hack-publisher to a real published author; how many Marvel comics did you read (and which ones) when doing research for the book? I am curious because I often hit walls and dead ends when working on projects and wind up needing breaks. Additionally - if you ever suffer from writer's block, how do you fight though it?

Hmm, at the time I'd given up on X-Men because of the "Jean Grey was never the Phoenix" idiocy. I think I was reading Avengers, Excalibur, Fantastic Four, Silver Surfer, and Squadron Supreme but not much else from Marvel. My biggest reading was Jeff Rovin's Encyclopedia of Superheroes. I also read every superhero game then in release -- Anyone remember SuperWorld? -- and categorized every power.
As for fighting Writers Block.... um, I first announced the UPC a decade ago. So probably not be the best person to advise you on that. But the most useful advice I've heard is to simply do something else for a while. In my case, paint or grab the camera.

I tend to treat all your answers to posts in regards to rule questions and such as canon in my games.

Just as long as you and your players don't start fighting over the shoe and the gourd I threw at you.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2011 11:41AM by DavidEMartin.

Love, Love, LOVE the revamp of vampirism decline!

Now, Hyper-Invention. Is the power rank the combined Reason and Hyper-Invention rank, or just the Hyper-Invention rank, or are there two ranks? My interpretation is that it is treated as Hyper-Intelligence and you combine the two ranks and use it for all aspects of the power.

Now, Hyper-Invention. Is the power rank the combined Reason and Hyper-Invention rank, or just the Hyper-Invention rank, or are there two ranks? My interpretation is that it is treated as Hyper-Intelligence and you combine the two ranks and use it for all aspects of the power.

The power rank for Hyper-Invention is added to the power rank for Reason to get the full benefit of the power's creativity. This is how you can get an idiot savant who can whip out a self-propelled AI system with Gateway capability. I'm talking about Tweedledope of the Crazy Gang who in turn created that robot whatsis who hung around with Excalibur.
Of course, throw in an advanced level of Reason and you can give Haephaestus a run for his money.




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/18/2011 05:25PM by DavidEMartin.

Thank You

barna10 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thank You


...and thank you for reminding me to use proper manners.

Thank you David E!

A question that just came up and reminded me of an argument a few years back that got quite heated. What was the rationale beyond Pheromones being an expensive 2-slot power? Was it because it was a mind control power and could affect people who were otherwise immune to the Psionic version of Mind Control?

Nightmask Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A question that just came up and reminded me of an
> argument a few years back that got quite heated.
> What was the rationale beyond Pheromones being an
> expensive 2-slot power? Was it because it was a
> mind control power and could affect people who
> were otherwise immune to the Psionic version of
> Mind Control?

Since when is Pheromones a 2-slot power. It's not in any UPB I have or can find on the web.

As per the UPB, Pheromones are a single slot power.
If there's some rule that it's a two-slot power, that was something someone else wrote somewhere else.
I don't see a justification for making it more expensive to possess. Sure it's powerful but you can protect yourself with a simple mask.

DavidEMartin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As per the UPB, Pheromones are a single slot
> power.
> If there's some rule that it's a two-slot power,
> that was something someone else wrote somewhere
> else.
> I don't see a justification for making it more
> expensive to possess. Sure it's powerful but you
> can protect yourself with a simple mask.

My physical copy of the UPB clearly has the 2-slot Asterisk next to Pheromones David, jsyk. Sure you can attempt to protect yourself with a mask but you'd have to know someone was using Pheromones against you and there's little difference between that and someone wearing psionic shields against Mind Control as neither protection is going to be in use unless someone's either paranoid or expecting that sort of trouble.

Huh........... Been looking at my Zan Edition so I had to check a solid copy.
Dang....
Must have been a typo I never thought about.
The question is, which version is the typo?
(play Final Jeopardy theme)
Guess the original edition is the right one.
I was probably thinking that this power as a potent means to controlling crowds, of holding all sorts of people in your thrall. You got this power and you could face the Avengers.
Certainly Poison Ivy uses her version with ease. Although admittedly she's seldom faced an actual superhero.....
Still, all Batman has to do is remember to insert those "nose filters" comics characters always seem to have a supply of.

DavidEMartin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Huh........... Been looking at my Zan Edition so
> I had to check a solid copy.
> Dang....
> Must have been a typo I never thought about.
> The question is, which version is the typo?
> (play Final Jeopardy theme)
> Guess the original edition is the right one.
> I was probably thinking that this power as a
> potent means to controlling crowds, of holding all
> sorts of people in your thrall. You got this
> power and you could face the Avengers.
> Certainly Poison Ivy uses her version with ease.
> Although admittedly she's seldom faced an actual
> superhero.....
> Still, all Batman has to do is remember to insert
> those "nose filters" comics characters always seem
> to have a supply of.

Probably why she has that thing for kissing her victims, direct application to get it into the bloodstream instead of relying solely upon inhalation. I remember how fierce the arguments were over the weighting for the power, and I know someone did mention how the power lets you easily dominate an entire crowd whereas conventional Mind Control can only manage a single target (occasionally two by dropping the power rank for success). Throwing entire crowds at heroes is a common tactic of supervillains with powers like Pheromones, and very effective (at least in MSH, Heroes Unlimited on the other hand seems like they've got to nerf just about everything as players play it for the relatively penalty-free opportunity to kill just about anyone that gets in their way including those crowds).

Funny, my print copy doesn't have an asterisk.

Mine does. On the table near the front for Physical Enhancement powers.