A solid foundation of rules will carry a game for decades, even with out a revised edition.
Consider a solid core book
Intro hero/villain roster
map
dice
I would even go for a plastic figurine(as i be planning such for the game)


Followed by modules, character expansion supplements

Cross over scenarios so that both in that world and cross over can be played



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2013 11:53AM by The_Skycutter.

MajorSteel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A modest and true representation in order for them
> to be played and be welcome in a balance game.
>
> I notice some interpretation wouldn't accurately
> be defined in those goals.
>
> However, fixing broke powers and have the time to
> really edit as Mr Martin has stated with an
> expansion power book here and there.
> It would take expansion books in order to keep the
> game fresh and have revenue to stay in business.
> Of course the character roster would be the
> greatest part

There are no broke powers, only powers some have issues with that others do not. Just as the only balance in a game is what's provided by the players and GM as the game can't be expected to manage something so arbitrary. An RPG's purpose is to provide the rules for a framework that lets the GM provide an enjoyable game for himself and those playing.

Game balance is best suited for online games, MMOs and such... because in an environment where there isn't a person to make judgement calls for specific situations --especially when PVP comes up, players who are paying money are going to complain if one "class" or group of powers is superior to another. Of course, even in the arbitrary computer-judged environment, game balance is a difficult thing to achieve and is constantly being tweaked.

Wax on wax off, game balance.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2013 11:54AM by The_Skycutter.

Broke power/poorly define, it all the same to me.

...daaaang! Your avatar is just SO gosh-goldarnnit PURDY!

And thanks for all the fish!

8)

Many game systems strive for the holy grail of game balance, they usually have multiple edition and very little backward compatibility. Others don't bother with it.

I once started creating my own rpg game based around the Golden Age of Pirates with a few fantasy elements and races thrown in. At first I figured balance would be worked out through playtesting, then I decided not to worry about it because each group/crew would be different.


As long as a game has a solid core balance will happen within the group and as long as everyone has fun...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2013 12:21PM by The_Skycutter.

1) Dave, If you had the opportunity, what other powers would you have added to the UPB besides the ones listed in the various addendums posted in Dragon Magazine?

2) Unfortunately, powers such as Embrionic Infection were not listed in the UPB or its addendums. I have done my best to explain that power in my write-up of the Brood in the Humanoid Races portion of my site (http://www.xmanalsmrpg.com). Can you describe how you would post that power and any others that have been listed post-UPB (and addendums)?

Greetings all! I've been tinkering with the system for some time now and managed to play in a couple games, though they were cut short as life continues to be an adventure for yours truly. Getting back in the saddle (or trying to, anyway), I rolled a random character and ended up with T10/Hyper-Running from the Ultimate Powers Book (p.96). I think I understand the affect on Endurance and the optional increase in Fighting ability, that just makes sense. What is confusing me, however, is the following bit: "The hero's Power rank number decreases the perceived speed of the other object. For example, Quicksilver's Shift X speed lets him perceive a bullet traveling at 600mph as if it were traveling only 15mph."

What's the math behind that?

Some notes that may or may not be relevant...
Hyper-Running @ IN(36) - which is 105mph, according to the Movement Table in the back of UPB and what my character has - would allow a character to perceive objects traveling slower by... how much? What's the math behind Quicksilver's slowing down of time?

Shift X's Standard Rank Number is 150 (range of 126-175, p.2 APB ).

600/15 = 40

600mph is an airspeed of Unearthly, but 15mph is an airspeed of half of Feeble (which is 30mph), though 15mph is the listing for Feeble landspeed.

If I were to hazard a guess, I'd say the 15 is the Shift-X 150 divided by 10.

With an Incredible 36, your number to divide the speed of the bullet by would be 3.6, so your character would perceive the same 600 mph bullet at 166 mph. I'm just guessing, of course, but it seems to work, no?

Ah, that would make some sense, yes! Thank you!

My personal experience is that balance is lost, even with a decently balanced game system, when there is a player who decides that he wants to play a demigod instead of just having fun with the campaign/story line.

We had a player create a 'hero' years ago whos power was to touch the villain and immediately teleport them to hell and leave them there. Not overly heroic...and it was a character who should have been severely limited and a player who should have wanted to play the game instead of just immediately winning and being done with it.

I started playing RPGs in 1982 and over the years Ive noticed that the game systems can be designed very balanced, but it only takes that one player who has a ego problem and is making up for personal shortcomings/failings in his personal life to throw the whole thing out of whack.

Personally I just like playing games. Its not about winning or losing, its about the interaction and the creativity.
I think most games are designed with the idea in mind that players arent coming into the game with something to prove or a chip on their shoulders that they need to take out on the game system to feel validated in life.

Its sad, but pay attention to when your game gets unbalanced and watch the personality of the players who continually cause balance problems and see if the core issue doesnt extend well past the game system itself.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/11/2015 05:57AM by Darkman.

Darkman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Personally I just like playing games. Its not
> about winning or losing, its about the interaction
> and the creativity.
> I think most games are designed with the idea in
> mind that players arent coming into the game with
> something to prove or a chip on their shoulders
> that they need to take out on the game system to
> feel validated in life.
>
> Its sad, but pay attention to when your game gets
> unbalanced and watch the personality of the
> players who continually cause balance problems and
> see if the core issue doesnt extend well past the
> game system itself.


I think this sums up a lot of problems many people experience with RPGs in general. It's not necessarily the game, but perhaps a player like who either doesn't get it or doesn't care. And if a person in such a group can't spot that person, maybe it's because they are that person.

Thrudjelmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Darkman Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Personally I just like playing games. Its not
> > about winning or losing, its about the
> interaction
> > and the creativity.
> > I think most games are designed with the idea
> in
> > mind that players arent coming into the game
> with
> > something to prove or a chip on their shoulders
> > that they need to take out on the game system
> to
> > feel validated in life.
> >
> > Its sad, but pay attention to when your game
> gets
> > unbalanced and watch the personality of the
> > players who continually cause balance problems
> and
> > see if the core issue doesnt extend well past
> the
> > game system itself.
>
>
> I think this sums up a lot of problems many people
> experience with RPGs in general. It's not
> necessarily the game, but perhaps a player like
> who either doesn't get it or doesn't care. And if
> a person in such a group can't spot that person,
> maybe it's because they are that person.

I am that player, we all are to some extent. Who wants to lose? Still some who can spin the story can make it fun and not about being the all mighty. I played Steel Hornet, he not the best and definite not the most powerful, but that was the fun. He had issue defeating the Shocker and had to get creative.

MajorSteel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am that player, we all are to some extent. Who
> wants to lose?

That's just approaching role-playing games in the wrong way. I mean, unless the judge is running them like a board game, winners are the people that play for the story, role-play interaction, and possibly fun/challenging problem solving issues. I saw something on Facebook recently about how to incorporate your D&D playing into your resume as team building and problem solving exercises. Because the game can have losers, losing a fight possibly character dying (easy enough to avoid), but even losing represents new challenges to overcome. Just gotta look at the big picture as a never-ending story rather than "I win! Let's grab some beers and next week we'll play Monopoly and I'll beat all you punks at that, too!"


> I played Steel Hornet, he not the best and definite
> not the most powerful, but that was the fun. He
> had issue defeating the Shocker and had to get
> creative.

That's what it's all about... having fun.

Thrudjelmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MajorSteel Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I am that player, we all are to some extent.
> Who
> > wants to lose?
>
> That's just approaching role-playing games in the
> wrong way. I mean, unless the judge is running
> them like a board game, winners are the people
> that play for the story, role-play interaction,
> and possibly fun/challenging problem solving
> issues. I saw something on Facebook recently
> about how to incorporate your D&D playing into
> your resume as team building and problem solving
> exercises. Because the game can have losers,
> losing a fight possibly character dying (easy
> enough to avoid), but even losing represents new
> challenges to overcome. Just gotta look at the
> big picture as a never-ending story rather than "I
> win! Let's grab some beers and next week we'll
> play Monopoly and I'll beat all you punks at that,
> too!"

That's not a wrong way of approaching RPG, particularly when you're talking RPG where there are challenges like super-hero RPG. There are definite 'win/lose' conditions, and you certainly aren't RPing a super-hero correctly if you don't care if he saves the innocents or worse think killing them either intentionally or by mistake is okay because 'well it's wrong to play it like there are win/lose conditions'.

> > I played Steel Hornet, he not the best and
> definite
> > not the most powerful, but that was the fun. He
> > had issue defeating the Shocker and had to get
> > creative.
>
> That's what it's all about... having fun.

And most people don't find losing fun.

Nightmask Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> And most people don't find losing fun.


That the whole point is winning. However, depending on what genre, one can definite win and have fun in the losing.
We all play whatever games in hoping to win, not lose.

MajorSteel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nightmask Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > And most people don't find losing fun.
>
>
> That the whole point is winning. However,
> depending on what genre, one can definite win and
> have fun in the losing.
> We all play whatever games in hoping to win, not
> lose.

Well there are those twits (I think they have a slur called 'griefer') who intentionally play games to lose, or at least ensure others lose which is how they 'win' by causing others grief instead of playing the game fairly.

I think griefers are an internet phenomenon. At the real world table of gaming, we just call those a$$holes.

LOL
Thrud you be right, but still, having fun is the key!

Ok. First of all, I wanted to thank everyone for their contributions to help me understand the system better, and be a better player/story teller.

Second, David described Hyper-Speed as a Temporal Distortion effect, which I think is really cool. I've been facinated by the power in that context since reading Retief and the Warlords. My question is, how does that interact with Reality Manipulation: Alter Temporal Flow? Do they stack, and if so, how?

Say a character has Hyper Speed: Good 10, Alter Temporal Flow: Good 10, and Prehensile Hair: Good 10 (giving 2 extra actions/rd). and Weapons Tinkering: Good 10. Would it bee actions 3 x 10 x 10? If so the character could build (not kitbash) an Aircraft Carrier in 8 hours. Would it instead be (10 +10) x 3? If so, the character could build that same aircraft carrier in 40 hours. That is, of course, aside from the time required to procure the "Special Requirement".

Another is the Total Memory power. In the description it says that the rank number is the percentage chance of getting an accurate answer. Then just a bit later it gives feat colors for different types of memories. How exactly does this work? Do you have to roll the correct color feat to have the memory, and then roll percentage to see if you remember anything and what the accuracy is? If so, I can't really see how this power is useful below Amazing rank. Even if you made the color feat roll you would have a better than even chance of getting either no info or innacurate info.

Third; the Demihuman: Lamian body type is described as having a 50% chance of having Excellent intensity poison, but I couldn't find any rules for a Poison power. Could you point me toward some rules for that? On the Ultimate Powers List on this site there is a Bio-Toxin power and a Poison Generation power. Should I use one of those?

Fourth; There are many powers listed on the Ultimate Powers List on this site and given a summary that do not appear on in the Ultimate Powers book. Where could I find the full rule descriptions of these powers?



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2015 03:51PM by Sivartius.

I am closing this topic since David hasn't been on the site for 2 years. I'll keep it here for reference.

He's back.

Cheap joke.

How does invisibility work in combat? I've searched the forum but my search-fu is weak...

arnoldnido
"How does invisibility work in combat? I've searched the forum but my search-fu is weak..."
There are 4 basic forms of Invisibility -- Physics, Telepathic, Hallucinatory, and Holographic.
They all serve two functions-- to prevent the Hero from being detected / attacked --and-- to protect the Hero as a kind of force field.
Check S16 in the UPB's Self Alteration Powers for details.

Sivartius
"...Hyper-Speed as a Temporal Distortion effect... how does that interact with Reality Manipulation: Alter Temporal Flow? Do they stack, and if so, how?"
They stack and in different ways if the powers are being used by one or two different people.
The two powers can combine to make the Hero even faster than his normal upper speed. Start with the Reality Manipulation: Alter Temporal Flow's effect, then modify it by the Hyper-Speed's multiplier. Normally that can be used to accelerate the Hero.
BUT-- it can also be used as an emergency brake by a speedster who has lost control of his power. RM:ATF is used to decelerate the speedster.
If two Heroes are involved, the Hero with RM:ATF acts as the external booster for the speedster. Alternately RM:ATF can be used as an attack against a speedster, bringing them down to normal human speed (and hence, vulnerability to attack)..

Sivartius
...the Total Memory power. In the description it says that the rank number is the percentage chance of getting an accurate answer.
Total Memory is an example of a fudgeable Power and one that is actually determined by the GM.
The Power Rank determines the accuracy of the information received. This is rolled by the GM. Note the GM is under no obligation to tell the Player what he actually rolled. He is only required to give the level of accurate info determined by the dice.
The Color FEAT determine the range of possible information sought and received. This is determined by the Player.

Sivartius
Demihuman: Lamian body type is described as having a 50% chance of having Excellent intensity poison, but I couldn't find any rules for a Poison power.. On the Ultimate Powers List on this site there is a Bio-Toxin power and a Poison Generation power. Should I use one of those?
The Lamia was a nod to AD&D and CLASH OF THE TITANS.(the good version). Assume the Lamia has poison sacs in its mouth that can be used via biting or spitting. However if you want to spend a Slot on a Poisonous power, by all means go ahead. She's your character to modify as you want. Work with your GM to craft a Lamian that will work within your campaign.

Hey Dave, have you ever rolled back to back 00's?

What custom rule if any would you recommend with such a feat?

Check for use of probability manipulation on the part of the player?

It's only 1 in 10,000 chance.

Hi David, I've really enjoyed your contributions to the game!

My question: People play this game in many different styles. Can you describe your ideal Marvel game as a player?