Hi David question when shooting a hero with a machine gun damage should be dealt by each bullet that was fired lets says 20 bullets on one attack? another if a hero with this background he was a scientist working with banner and he also gained super strength does that super strength is considered a power? or just part of what the hero is, another let say the mob is attacking the hero and he has some armor and its hit with a machine gun how much damage does the hero take? if the armor is amazing?

I'm not David, but let me see if I can help you figure this out.

Machine guns fire in bursts per turn. Each burst of bullets deals damage as a total effect rather than each individual bullet. So if the weapon has Remarkable (30) damage, then however many bullets are fired as a burst deals 30 damage to a target on a successful hit. Can you choose how many bullets to fire in a burst to increase or decrease this? I don't believe so; and the amount of bullets used may vary from weapon to weapon.

30 points of damage is standard for machine guns, even of different designs with different caliber bullets. Maybe the bigger bullets are firing at a slower rate than machine guns with smaller bullets, allowing more smaller bullets to add up to the same damage as the bigger ones. The damage ratings are intended to be generic this way for simplicity's sake. However, there are rules in place which could increase the damage rating, such as explosive ammo, or a specially modified weapon. Modifications require Reason FEATs to effectively rebuild existing tech better than it was, so any modified weapon is a unique piece of equipment and not subject to the generic weapons damage rating.

Is super strength a power? Yes and no... and also yes. In the comics, cartoons, movies, and pretty much any other medium, if someone has greater than normal strength it's considered a power (perhaps even their only power). However, by game rules, Primary Abilities are not powers, only powers are powers. But there is also a Hyper-Strength power which boosts the Primary Ability, and that counts as a power. So if your character has a flat rank of Amazing (50) Strength and is hit with a power neutralizer that has no defined effect on Primary Abilities, then the strength is not affected by the power neutralizer. If you add Hyper-Strength into that equation, then the character is likely to lose his Hyper-Strength power but still retain his base Strength rank. Of course, the power neutralizer could also be designed so that it applies a column shift penalty to Primary Abilities and then it would affect both power and Strength.

A machine gun deals Remarkable (30) damage, so shooting a character with Amazing rank armor is not going to affect that character. Even if the bullets were armor piercing rounds (which reduces armor effectiveness by -2CS), it won't damage the armored character because Amazing -2 column shifts is still Remarkable. The Judge may decide that damage that equals the effective armor rank may sting or leave welts on the character because it's doing enough damage where it's just enough to be felt but not enough to cause real damage to the character... it might be the same kind of pain of someone flicking their finger against your ear really hard --hurts, but it isn't going to cause a point of damage; in this case it's just an over-stimulation of the nerve endings.

Hey many thanks for the answer it is a great game indeed and my friends are really enjoying it usually we play D&D but since they are fans of the superhero movies it seems to be the right time and they really enjoy the game I'm a dm and a fanboy of TSR products and this is a masterpiece.

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Thrudjelmer
I'm not David, but let me see if I can help you figure this out.

Machine guns fire in bursts per turn. Each burst of bullets deals damage as a total effect rather than each individual bullet. So if the weapon has Remarkable (30) damage, then however many bullets are fired as a burst deals 30 damage to a target on a successful hit. Can you choose how many bullets to fire in a burst to increase or decrease this? I don't believe so; and the amount of bullets used may vary from weapon to weapon.

30 points of damage is standard for machine guns, even of different designs with different caliber bullets. Maybe the bigger bullets are firing at a slower rate than machine guns with smaller bullets, allowing more smaller bullets to add up to the same damage as the bigger ones. The damage ratings are intended to be generic this way for simplicity's sake. However, there are rules in place which could increase the damage rating, such as explosive ammo, or a specially modified weapon. Modifications require Reason FEATs to effectively rebuild existing tech better than it was, so any modified weapon is a unique piece of equipment and not subject to the generic weapons damage rating.

Is super strength a power? Yes and no... and also yes. In the comics, cartoons, movies, and pretty much any other medium, if someone has greater than normal strength it's considered a power (perhaps even their only power). However, by game rules, Primary Abilities are not powers, only powers are powers. But there is also a Hyper-Strength power which boosts the Primary Ability, and that counts as a power. So if your character has a flat rank of Amazing (50) Strength and is hit with a power neutralizer that has no defined effect on Primary Abilities, then the strength is not affected by the power neutralizer. If you add Hyper-Strength into that equation, then the character is likely to lose his Hyper-Strength power but still retain his base Strength rank. Of course, the power neutralizer could also be designed so that it applies a column shift penalty to Primary Abilities and then it would affect both power and Strength.

A machine gun deals Remarkable (30) damage, so shooting a character with Amazing rank armor is not going to affect that character. Even if the bullets were armor piercing rounds (which reduces armor effectiveness by -2CS), it won't damage the armored character because Amazing -2 column shifts is still Remarkable. The Judge may decide that damage that equals the effective armor rank may sting or leave welts on the character because it's doing enough damage where it's just enough to be felt but not enough to cause real damage to the character... it might be the same kind of pain of someone flicking their finger against your ear really hard --hurts, but it isn't going to cause a point of damage; in this case it's just an over-stimulation of the nerve endings.

Isn't the point of a burst attack to apply the damage to an area? (I'm a little fuzzy on the rules for shooting attacks because I have not used them in quite some time so I could be wrong ) but I thought that was the secret to Scourge's murder spree of justice, that and his exploding bullets.

Also wouldn't a RM (30) attack with a machine gun vs RM (30) body armor still apply any FEAT effects shooting attacks are known for, such as Bulls Eye and Kill results? even if no damage is actually inflicted.

Yes, burst attacks can affect more targets, but the question was about how it affects one target.

Exploding bullets, like armor piercing rounds, are another way to affect damage without making permanent modifications to a weapon.

As for whether or not the bullets would inflict a kill check against someone with no damage dealt, I would say no. I do allow for stuns and slam results on attacks that deal the same damage as the target's body armor rank, but that's because the hits are strong enough that the target can feel them and could be knocked senseless. A bullet attack might sting, and a bullseye result is possible if it makes a difference where it hits, but unless it's dealing damage I don't see how a kill result is possible.

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Thrudjelmer
Yes, burst attacks can affect more targets, but the question was about how it affects one target.

Exploding bullets, like armor piercing rounds, are another way to affect damage without making permanent modifications to a weapon.

As for whether or not the bullets would inflict a kill check against someone with no damage dealt, I would say no. I do allow for stuns and slam results on attacks that deal the same damage as the target's body armor rank, but that's because the hits are strong enough that the target can feel them and could be knocked senseless. A bullet attack might sting, and a bullseye result is possible if it makes a difference where it hits, but unless it's dealing damage I don't see how a kill result is possible.

So you would allow stuns and slams to occur regardless of damage, but completely invalidate the yellow and red FEAT roll of a shooting attack based on damage? Would you make the same ruling against the use of claws and edged attacks?

What if in your above example, that stinging bullet that inflicted no noticeable damage was actually a red FEAT roll that grazed the temple and that bruise or contusion formed on the inside of the skull on the brain? or it struck a nerve in just the right way? Martial artists have been using nerve attacks for centuries, even in comics, so why couldn't a bullet produce a similar effect?

I was under the impression that the color of the FEAT roll was resolved before even dealing with the damage aspect. Why bother trying to apply the damage from said attack when a character just suffered a kill result? It seems to me in such an event, if said character passed his Endurance check and warded off the killing blow then it would be an appropriate time to apply damage or resist damage.

*P.S. in the above example mentioning if a player could choose the amount of burst available to fire, I would say yes they can. Back in my days of carrying a M16A2 around in the Marine Corp most civilians think machine gun = fully automatic all the time, such is not the case. The M16A2 rifle was typically a semi-automatic machine gun meaning you pull the trigger one time and it fires one bullet each time. On the side of the breach is a selector for the M16A2 that alters firing patterns. This selector was labeled 2 burst and 3 burst. Selecting 2 shot burst means that the weapon now fires 2 bullets per single pull of the trigger and the 3 shot burst meant that the weapon would now fire 3 bullets for every single pull of the trigger. Typically a soldier would use the semi-automatic mode for target practice or accuracy, switching to the burst modes was typically for providing suppressing fire or to blanket an area when your target was under cover or for taking on formations of soldiers. As it applies to MSH it would not increase / decrease the CS damage of a burst attack but it would allow a shootist to choose exactly how many attacks could be made against an area.

Believe it or not, most FULLY AUTOMATIC weapons are not typically allowed for personal use even in warfare. Typically, fully automatic weapons have always been outlawed or reserved for things like the .50 caliber machine gun, which typically is assigned a detail of 3 men to transport and operate or mounted to a tank or other transport.

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Necromancer
So you would allow stuns and slams to occur regardless of damage, but completely invalidate the yellow and red FEAT roll of a shooting attack based on damage? Would you make the same ruling against the use of claws and edged attacks?

That isn't exactly what I said. I said that I wouldn't allow for a Kill check on a Red FEAT attack that deals no damage, but that's because because I believe that an attack that causes no damage should not be lethal. I did not say that a Yellow FEAT would be invalidated, but a Bullseye result's effects can vary, so if it were to strike the target in a way as to graze the temple (or make a direct hit and bounce off), I might treat that as a stun check... and because a Red FEAT that deals no damage should not have less effect than a Yellow FEAT, I would probably extend the use of a stun check in that instance. But that's just me.

Slamming and stunning targets whose protection is equal to the damage works for me because these are not lethal effects and I can see someone taking a forceful hit that doesn't cause damage still shaking them up. But there's a difference between between getting shaken by an attack that can't hurt you and being killed by an attack that can't hurt you. Is it possible to be killed by something that causes no damage in real life? Maybe, but it seems so unheroic that I would rather just exclude the possibility from my games. If you choose to do it differently, the rules are certainly open to interpretation.

As for choosing the number of bullets fired in a burst, again I am speaking about game rules and not real world weapons. You can choose to fire a burst attack with an automatic weapon, but by the rules you can't set the burst damage to be greater or lesser than the weapon's stated damage rating. There are plenty of games that handle more life-like detail for firearms rules. Marvel works best as a simplified system, and I think that trying to cram more reality into it than the rules provide detracts from the gameplay rather than adding to it.

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Thrudjelmer

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Necromancer

I was just asking Thrud, I had never seen it done quite that way and was curious as to your reasoning or if you were using some sort of house rules.

One world of adventure is never enough.

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Sparks
If there was one power, origin, or ability you could add to the UPB what would it be?

Is there a power you would assurance chat rewrite if given the ability to do so?

Hello!
I just want to know why Logan Had lost immortality in the last movie!?
Thanks

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lorent026

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Sparks
If there was one power, origin, or ability you could add to the UPB what would it be?

Is there a power you would assurance chat rewrite if given the ability to do so?

Hello!
I just want to know why Logan Had lost immortality in the last movie!?
Thanks

Logan never really had immortality, his aging process is simply retarded to a snails pace because of his healing factor. As he advances to old age it's very likely his healing factor could become weaker as seen in some possible future versions of Wolverine in comics.

Also, the movies always tend to stray from the source material to varying degrees, as evidenced by the appearance of Deadpool in Wolverine: Origins. They take ideas from the comics and either underplay or overplay them in the movies to suit whatever story they want to tell and the source material be damned, because they know the fanboys will be able to accept any half-hearted rationalization the movie makes for the changes.

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Thrudjelmer
Also, the movies always tend to stray from the source material to varying degrees, as evidenced by the appearance of Deadpool in Wolverine: Origins. They take ideas from the comics and either underplay or overplay them in the movies to suit whatever story they want to tell and the source material be damned, because they know the fanboys will be able to accept any half-hearted rationalization the movie makes for the changes.

Yes, I still wish Sony had presented that tale just like Barry Windsor Smith created it. That film would have been worth watching then.

Energy absorption (kinetic) seems like a very strong defense. Punches, kicks, thrown objects, bullets, and even explosions all rely on kinetic energy to do damage. If this toon not only absorbs kinetic energy but converts it to health, how is anyone supposed to prove to be a danger to him?

Would slashing or stabbing present a problem? After all, both require kinetic energy to pierce the skin.

What about throwing the character himself? Or would he simply stop and be on the ground unscathed?

I would imagine energy attacks do not rely on kinetic energy to do damage but none of this toon's opponents have weapons like that.

Another aspect of the power I need clarification on is whether the toon that has the power has to concentrate to use it or is it "on" all the time? Even when he's asleep? Even when an opponent successfully sneaks up on him and attempts to knock him out with a blunt strike to the bank of his head?

If the power is on all the time, then how could he even walk or move? If it only affects things outside his body then what about when he rides a bike? Wouldn't he suck the kinetic energy out of the bike effectively making it impossible for him to ride?

I don't intend to push anything to that extreme, but if the power is on all the time and works to defend him, then I'm back to my original query: what kinds of mundane attacks would actually work? A drill? Could someone put a blade to him and simply add pressure until it pierces the skin? What about dragging a sharp blade across his skin?

I don't mean to sound so gruesome, but if the players aren't challenged in some way simply because they've chosen powers that protect the too well, then the campaign we just started isn't going to last very long.

At this point, consider me a newb. Any guidance would be appreciated.

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TechnicDragon
Energy absorption (kinetic) seems like a very strong defense. Punches, kicks, thrown objects, bullets, and even explosions all rely on kinetic energy to do damage. If this toon not only absorbs kinetic energy but converts it to health, how is anyone supposed to prove to be a danger to him?

Would slashing or stabbing present a problem? After all, both require kinetic energy to pierce the skin.

What about throwing the character himself? Or would he simply stop and be on the ground unscathed?

I would imagine energy attacks do not rely on kinetic energy to do damage but none of this toon's opponents have weapons like that.

Another aspect of the power I need clarification on is whether the toon that has the power has to concentrate to use it or is it "on" all the time? Even when he's asleep? Even when an opponent successfully sneaks up on him and attempts to knock him out with a blunt strike to the bank of his head?

If the power is on all the time, then how could he even walk or move? If it only affects things outside his body then what about when he rides a bike? Wouldn't he suck the kinetic energy out of the bike effectively making it impossible for him to ride?

I don't intend to push anything to that extreme, but if the power is on all the time and works to defend him, then I'm back to my original query: what kinds of mundane attacks would actually work? A drill? Could someone put a blade to him and simply add pressure until it pierces the skin? What about dragging a sharp blade across his skin?

I don't mean to sound so gruesome, but if the players aren't challenged in some way simply because they've chosen powers that protect the too well, then the campaign we just started isn't going to last very long.

At this point, consider me a newb. Any guidance would be appreciated.

Look at Sebastian Shaw, aka the Black King since his power is Kinetic Absorption, it's on all the time, and it doesn't just automatically heal him it also improves his Strength and Health as he absorbs energy. Prior to the power creep or failure of some writers to understand he couldn't absorb anything else he was still vulnerable to things like electricity (albeit with a fairly good pool of health thanks to his power), he could still be affected by cold and suffocation (Storm basically defeated him by using her powers to lower the oxygen levels in the room while simultaneously generating blizzard conditions), same with drugs, telepathic attacks, and so on.

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Nightmask

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TechnicDragon
Energy absorption (kinetic) seems like a very strong defense. Punches, kicks, thrown objects, bullets, and even explosions all rely on kinetic energy to do damage. If this toon not only absorbs kinetic energy but converts it to health, how is anyone supposed to prove to be a danger to him?

Would slashing or stabbing present a problem? After all, both require kinetic energy to pierce the skin.

What about throwing the character himself? Or would he simply stop and be on the ground unscathed?

I would imagine energy attacks do not rely on kinetic energy to do damage but none of this toon's opponents have weapons like that.

Another aspect of the power I need clarification on is whether the toon that has the power has to concentrate to use it or is it "on" all the time? Even when he's asleep? Even when an opponent successfully sneaks up on him and attempts to knock him out with a blunt strike to the bank of his head?

If the power is on all the time, then how could he even walk or move? If it only affects things outside his body then what about when he rides a bike? Wouldn't he suck the kinetic energy out of the bike effectively making it impossible for him to ride?

I don't intend to push anything to that extreme, but if the power is on all the time and works to defend him, then I'm back to my original query: what kinds of mundane attacks would actually work? A drill? Could someone put a blade to him and simply add pressure until it pierces the skin? What about dragging a sharp blade across his skin?

I don't mean to sound so gruesome, but if the players aren't challenged in some way simply because they've chosen powers that protect the too well, then the campaign we just started isn't going to last very long.

At this point, consider me a newb. Any guidance would be appreciated.

Look at Sebastian Shaw, aka the Black King since his power is Kinetic Absorption, it's on all the time, and it doesn't just automatically heal him it also improves his Strength and Health as he absorbs energy. Prior to the power creep or failure of some writers to understand he couldn't absorb anything else he was still vulnerable to things like electricity (albeit with a fairly good pool of health thanks to his power), he could still be affected by cold and suffocation (Storm basically defeated him by using her powers to lower the oxygen levels in the room while simultaneously generating blizzard conditions), same with drugs, telepathic attacks, and so on.

This was excellent. Thank you!

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TechnicDragon

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Nightmask

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TechnicDragon
Energy absorption (kinetic) seems like a very strong defense. Punches, kicks, thrown objects, bullets, and even explosions all rely on kinetic energy to do damage. If this toon not only absorbs kinetic energy but converts it to health, how is anyone supposed to prove to be a danger to him?

Would slashing or stabbing present a problem? After all, both require kinetic energy to pierce the skin.

What about throwing the character himself? Or would he simply stop and be on the ground unscathed?

I would imagine energy attacks do not rely on kinetic energy to do damage but none of this toon's opponents have weapons like that.

Another aspect of the power I need clarification on is whether the toon that has the power has to concentrate to use it or is it "on" all the time? Even when he's asleep? Even when an opponent successfully sneaks up on him and attempts to knock him out with a blunt strike to the bank of his head?

If the power is on all the time, then how could he even walk or move? If it only affects things outside his body then what about when he rides a bike? Wouldn't he suck the kinetic energy out of the bike effectively making it impossible for him to ride?

I don't intend to push anything to that extreme, but if the power is on all the time and works to defend him, then I'm back to my original query: what kinds of mundane attacks would actually work? A drill? Could someone put a blade to him and simply add pressure until it pierces the skin? What about dragging a sharp blade across his skin?

I don't mean to sound so gruesome, but if the players aren't challenged in some way simply because they've chosen powers that protect the too well, then the campaign we just started isn't going to last very long.

At this point, consider me a newb. Any guidance would be appreciated.

Look at Sebastian Shaw, aka the Black King since his power is Kinetic Absorption, it's on all the time, and it doesn't just automatically heal him it also improves his Strength and Health as he absorbs energy. Prior to the power creep or failure of some writers to understand he couldn't absorb anything else he was still vulnerable to things like electricity (albeit with a fairly good pool of health thanks to his power), he could still be affected by cold and suffocation (Storm basically defeated him by using her powers to lower the oxygen levels in the room while simultaneously generating blizzard conditions), same with drugs, telepathic attacks, and so on.

This was excellent. Thank you!

You're quite welcome. Glad to be of help.

Also, the power's rank determines how much kinetic energy can be absorbed. Anything above that rank becomes damage.

I have a question that I'd like to ask.

I think it's called the FEAT Chart. It's the one with the different columns, dice roll results, and the varying levels of success. I would ask if it's actually called the FEAT Chart, but I only said I had one question and I don't want to waste it on that.

Some of these charts have a Blue result that is essentially a fumble result. Others do not have the Blue result option. The charts with the Blue results also shift success, the Green result, down a row or two, depending on where you are on the columns. Which chart is appropriate to use; the one with the Blue result option, or the one without the Blue result option?

Thank you for your time.

It's called the Universal Table. The one with the blue result option is unofficial, but use of one or the other is entirely a matter of preference.

Not sure if it ever been asked, Do you conventions?

Hi There, First time poster, long time lurker. Recently i reconnected with te guy who was my original Dm way back when. Recently we bust out the UPB and had a round of one of our favourtie games of the past "roll a random superhero" I rolled a humanoid race with Mechanical creation. The only example of this power i could recall was the mutant Forge and his ability to create weapons from nothing. I was just wondering if any body else has rolled a hero wth this power and if so, have they some example of this power in use?

Hey there Krayven,

That sounds like a fun walk through memory lane. I agree the random character creation itself can be pretty entertaining.
I'm not David, but happy to share an example. This is really sort of an advanced version of matter creation; the ability to manifest complex machinery from basically nothing. And in the description it even says if you like you can choose to specialize the power and create one specific machine, like an iron man suit that coalesces around you. And that brings up a great modern day example from Avengers: Infinity War. In New York City, Tony Stark just taps his chest and his suit materializes around him. And not just that, he also materializes three or four floating laser cannon, which begin firing. I think even though the in-movie explanation for this are nanites, this is still a pretty good illustration of one application of this power.

Edit: The scene starts at 1 minute, 10 seconds. For some reason my link isn't cuing up to the right spot.




Tony Stark Creates Machinery from Nothing in New York City

David hasn't been on the forum since 2016. I'm going to close this and reopen it if he ever returns. Thanks for everything so far.