Except Molecule Man isn't that weak-willed and was generally non-violent only during the period he was getting feel-good therapy to deal with his world-conquering desires. He has had no problems staring down Thor, Silver Surfer, and Captain America and slapping them around and he could easily do the same to Magneto.

Owen was weak willed enough to be a really easy target of the Puppet Master during the Infinity War... he even commented that Owen fit the bill perfectly as a being of immense power, yet weak willed. Dude, that's canon. In my book Owen's never shown any evidence of anything even close to a high Psyche. As for him facing down Thor and the likes, it's easy to be confident when you have Class 1000+ power at your fingertips. That doesn't equate a strong will, though.

Yes and we've seen Puppet Master dominate the Sphinx and force him to destroy his own power gem and he's obviously not weak-willed and a low-grade cosmic being instead so PM is hardly a benchmark of who's low-psyche and who isn't. PM has even dominated Doom on occasion and was simply reflecting a particular writer's low opinion of Owen in that piece.

Even if Graviton has a low Psyche score in game terms, the man is a raving egomaniac who would never bow and scrape to someone else -- he'd insist on himself as leader

true, but Magneto could always use a Behavioural Modifier device on Gravitron. The technology isn't too advanced for him to create (or steal), I believe he's used equivalent tech previously. He could disguise tjhe device as a way to "Boost" the powers of someone like he did with the savage land Mutates.

I've usually found that with him, What Magneto wants, Magneto gets...

The main issue i see is that at some point or another, enough of this nearly all-human roster of the brotherhood [they don't have the x-gene, which is the litmus test for mutants vs. humans in the marvel u, regardless of the RPG classifying them as some stripe of mutant or not] are gonna figure out that magneto wants to kill most, and enslave the rest of humanity under mutant dominion. And not all of that line up are stupid, such as Radioactive Man. They're gonna turn on mags at some point, and then the only real backup Magneto has is his daughter.

Not if he set the difficult ones up as overlords over humanity. Gravitron has aspirations to rule, so do a couple of others... Magneto could find the right pitches to those in question if he really wanted to...

Chronomancer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Not if he set the difficult ones up as overlords
> over humanity. Gravitron has aspirations to rule,
> so do a couple of others... Magneto could find
> the right pitches to those in question if he
> really wanted to...

Except Magneto considers everyone who isn't a Random Mutant as part of normal humanity and the enemy (especially during his particularly evil and genocidal periods) so isn't going to draft anyone who isn't a Random Mutant and isn't either slavishly loyal or easily browbeat into serving him (and no way he's going to browbeat Graviton into serving him or Molecule Man). The closest he's ever come to using non-mutants was when he created Alpha and his Savage Land Mutates and in both cases they were meant to blindly serve him and not have powers to threaten him (so Alpha was a grave miscalculation).

Nightmask Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Except Magneto considers everyone who isn't a
> Random Mutant as part of normal humanity and the
> enemy (especially during his particularly evil and
> genocidal periods) so isn't going to draft anyone
> who isn't a Random Mutant ....

or a Breed Mutant.

Like his kids (Scarlett Witch/Quicksilver = Breed Mutants)

Gene Wrote:
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> Like his kids (Scarlett Witch/Quicksilver = Breed
> Mutants)

Exactly.

Ok next team creation topic:

The Four Horsemen of Apocalypse

I'll go ahead and start first:

Death - Northstar
Pestilence - Henry Pym
Famine - Rogue
War - Doop

CapoCastillo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok next team creation topic:
>
> The Four Horsemen of Apocalypse
>
> I'll go ahead and start first:
>
> Death - Northstar
> Pestilence - Henry Pym
> Famine - Rogue
> War - Doop



Why Northstar as Death?

You cant outrun Death?

'Death catches up with everyone' was certainly a theme I was conceiving when i chose Northstar as Death. But also, I felt that in serving Apocalypse, Jean-Paul could rise to the level of prominence and frankly badassedness he never could with Alpha Flight or the X-Men.

CapoCastillo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 'Death catches up with everyone' was certainly a
> theme I was conceiving when i chose Northstar as
> Death. But also, I felt that in serving
> Apocalypse, Jean-Paul could rise to the level of
> prominence and frankly badassedness he never could
> with Alpha Flight or the X-Men.

Well, yes. But why not a faster speedster, like Quicksilver?

He's no longer a speedster last I checked. He has time powers now.

Punstarr Wrote:
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> He's no longer a speedster last I checked. He has
> time powers now.

What's the difference between a speedster and a time manipulator? At the highest imaginable speed, one could concievably be every place and every time simultaneously - kinda like DC's Speed Force. Short trips would resemble the powers of superspeed, teleportation, dimensional travel, and time travel.

And a time manipulator with finite control of his powers could easily duplicate the effects of superspeed or teleportation.

Though, I'm not sure Quicksilver can move that fast even if he were to use up a bunch of Terrigen Crystals. He can only manage short jaunts into the future, and when he stops moving, he finds himself back in the past a few moments after he left. Besides getting to read new comic books a week earlier that everyone else, I'm pretty sure Quicksilver would make a more powerful Death than Northstar.

Dead Sidekick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CapoCastillo Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > 'Death catches up with everyone' was certainly
> a
> > theme I was conceiving when i chose Northstar
> as
> > Death. But also, I felt that in serving
> > Apocalypse, Jean-Paul could rise to the level
> of
> > prominence and frankly badassedness he never
> could
> > with Alpha Flight or the X-Men.
>
> Well, yes. But why not a faster speedster, like
> Quicksilver?


Quicksilver at his best day ever isn't even close to matching Northstar in speed. Northstar's top speed is near the speed of light, Quicksilver's not even fast enough to break escape velocity.

Even after the tampering to his genetics by the High Evolutionary? I thought he was given like Class 3000 speed after that.

It's not about who's more powerful, it's about who would be a better agenty of Apocalypse. pietro's loyalties are very very muddled, and his own ambition could be a thorn in Apocalypse's side later on down the road. Also Quicksilver can't fly.

Northstar can fly, for the win.

I know Northstar can edge just shy of lightspeed, but I don't think he can do that running on the ground.

true, but Quicksilver is more of an arrogant (insert appropriate phrase here) than Northstar, and that could and has been harnessed rather easily by someone like the Mr A.

I'm not saying that Northstar's not an arrogant individual, bit Quicksilver seemed to be much more arrogant and proud than his French counterpart. Although if memory serves, Northstar did have seperatist views, and if he's willing to betray his country, then he might be a good fit after all...

Chronomancer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> true, but Quicksilver is more of an arrogant
> (insert appropriate phrase here) than Northstar,
> and that could and has been harnessed rather
> easily by someone like the Mr A.
>
> I'm not saying that Northstar's not an arrogant
> individual, bit Quicksilver seemed to be much more
> arrogant and proud than his French counterpart.
> Although if memory serves, Northstar did have
> seperatist views, and if he's willing to betray
> his country, then he might be a good fit after
> all...

Well Separatist views aren't a betrayal of his country, he just feels his country is Quebec rather than Canada just like the South felt that their country was the Southern States instead of the entire Union. But both have done questionable things (Quicksilver some particularly wrong and evil things) so both would fit the roll. Quicksilver would though win by dint of his longer list of obvious wrongs compared to Northstar (sometimes it's good to go under the radar rather than have the writers going 'what can we do wrong next with this character?').

Granted, but the truth is economically Quebec cannot survive on it's own as a "seperate" nation.

The Quebecois, seperatists are sore that thier great grand father's got thier butts handed to them by a bunch of English, and have used a clause from the British North American act to sulk and complain for the past 130+ years. They complain that "The english " have caused Quebec to suffer, when in fact most of our Prime Ministers have been from Quebec (or french backgrounds) or had strong ties to Quebec, or the french prim ministers have had teh longest years in office. Then they appropriated the distinct society clause from the Meech lake accord from 80's (which was originally intended to secure Native American cultures) as a rallying cry to try to succeed where the PLQ in the '70's failed...

sorry, didn't mean to rant like that, It's just a bit of a sore spot for me. I'll try not to let it happen again

Alright for anyone that has seen my ridiculous Earth-740 campaign thread, this is our team called the super best friends. Initially it began with like five of us saying what powerful heroes we would like to be for msh. and then as our game developed and we realized that if heroes of our characters caliburs did the justice league/avengers concept of a team that it would be a bit imposing and then we said "well......let's just go nuts". so we said we'd do a twenty hero team consisting of 10 dc heroes and 10 marvel heroes, then those divisions are composed of eight male heroes one female heroine and one "reformed" villain. we restricted our selves to no characters higher than the surfer,supes,thor,flash level of power. needless to say it turned out to be ridiculous. for the record our line-up in no particular order is:

1.Superman
2.Silversurfer
3.Captain Marvel
4.Thor
5.Flash
6.Doctor Strange
7.Hal Jordan
8.Gladiator
9.Batman
10.Hulk
11.Wonder Woman
12.Iron Man
13.Lobo
14.Magneto
15.Doctor Fate
16.Reed Richards
17.Martian Manhunter
18.Phoenix
19.Captain Atom
20.Black Bolt

so if you did the same would your line up be any different?

Hopping onto the 'four Horsemen' idea:

Apocalypse's Four Horsemen: I admit, some of the discussion gave me some ideas too..but here is my thought:

War: The Hulk
Death: Omega Red
Pestilence: Typhoid Mary
famine: the Blob



My reasoning:

War personifies unrelenting carnage. Simply put, I think that for a time, and only for a time, that the Hulk represents pure rage. Apocalypse is always looking for that top 2% of survival, and mutant or no, the Hulk fits that role perfectly. Imagine the personification of rage enhanced by Apocalypse?

Death: Omega Red

Seriously, when Omega Red first appeared, he was scary. The death field enhanced, the coils reinforced, and you need very little modification to have him go. I think that with the right tweaking, he's good.

Pestilence: I was torn, because I thought of a few different people out there, but it hit me, that if I'm Apocalypse, it's much easier to increase someone's natural abilities, and I'm going to look for those would would be deemed 'survivors', or the echelon of that. To that end, I think there was little doubt that Typhoid is a divisive choice, look what she did to Daredevil. Mary affects not just the body, but the mind....especially the mind, and with a little help and modification, she's be the perfect choice.

Famine: Okay, the Blob: Why the blob? It's not the obvious 'He's the fat dude' mentality, but I remember the X-Men for Ethiopia book back in the 1980s, and the Magneto story had perhaps one of the most disturbing images of the Blob literally devouring everything in his wake. I think that his powers make him far underrated (Except during 'Army of Darkness vs. Marvel Zombies....funniest scene ever'). With all things considered, Fred J. Dukes is as amoral as they come, and I think that with the right engineering, you could really do something nasty there. I think for image of famine, the idea of the Blob is more....well...terrifying.

Apocalypse is going to build the horsemen not to just enforce his will, but also scare the bejeezus out of people, both in lethality and with the idea that the strong survive. I don't always agree Apocalypse will use mutants, due primarily to the fact that he'll use whomever he deems 'worthy' or genetically superior.

Those are my choices anyway.

pretty good team, i dig Omega Red as death

I think your horsemen are all exceptionally thought out. i really like the choice of the Blob.

Let me switch gears for a moment:

You're Henry Peter Gyrich, and you're enforcing the '7 member rule' on the Avengers. You can recruit any current Marvel character into the Avengers, but you can have only 7. You have to have meet the following reasons:

1. The team must work together.
2. No non-terran aliens (Must be on Earth)
3. No criminals (Gyrich would have a fit).
4. Only 7 members.

Who would you choose and why?