Thunderbolts, because the T-Bolts have plenty of cold blooded psychos on their squad that not only have no problem with killing, but actually, you know, enjoy it. The Rogue's Gallery are a bunch of petty theives with super powers. When they killed Bart Allen, they got all butt hurt over it.

Who wins? Thor, Juggs, or draw?

I posted this somewhere….. My Table Played this one several times…. I Guess it could be considered a ‘Draw’….

The only thing we managed was having Thor knock Juggy into Space.

Or sink Juggy miles into the Earth with a Gravity based Power Stunt of Weather Control.

And Finally have Thor place Juggy in an Anti Gravity Bubble so he couldn’t move about the map.


Thor took like 20 or 30 Damage….. PPPFFFFTTTTTT!!!!

Juggy took no Damage.

Thor has so many more ways to win. I'd pick Thor. The only way Juggy beats Thor is if Thor stands and "dukes it out" with him, which would make little sense. Thor's had experience fighting creatures of far greater physical power than he (Surter, Midguard Serpent, etc.) and always come out on top. I'd pick Thor on the basis of experience, breadth of powers and courage under fire. If Juggy isn't winning, I'll bet psychologically he's looking for a way out, while the only way to back Thor down is to kill him. Thor all the way.

The Battle Royal thread is for these type discussions.

That is correct. Thank you.

While it's not a huge tragedy, it does make it a pain to have to move these threads after the fact.

Tanker Ace,

Just as an aside, do you feel that a Gravity-Based move like that would be a viable Power Stunt off of Weather Control? I don't think I'd allow that and I'm curious as to why you would. Not saying you're wrong; I'd just like to hear your logic behind that.

The Rook

Just that an ‘Earth Quake’ is considered as ‘Weather’ and often times Thunder, Lighting, Storms, Rain, and Hurricane Winds are evoked with minor shifts in the Planet’s tectonic plates…. Or vice verse…. Heavy Sky Weather or Tornadoes can evoke an ‘Earth Quake’


To justify Thor controlling ‘Gravity’ was done with his ‘God-Blast’ in which we allowed Thor to Control various Known forms of Energy….

Lightening (Electricity, Light, Solar Radiation)

Thunder (Sound and Sonics… And passably ‘Air Bending’ for Kinetic Force Effects)

Temperature (Heat, Cold, Fire, and Ice….. This could fall under Solar Radiation too)

And Finally Gravity…. (or Electromagnetic Forces)

Physically, their a bit of a wash, but mentally, Juggernaut is borderline retarded. Thor hands down.

Tanker Ace,

I see. Cool!

The Rook

Is this gonna go to the VS thread? Cause Thor bested Kurse and Kurse would destroy Juggy every day of the week and twice on Sunday!?!

Yes, it will eventually be moved into the Vs. Thread. Later in the week probably.

Thor also had to sacrifice his AND Beta Ray Bill's hammers in the process to defeat Kurse, who's in the Shift Y Strength range (remember he was empowered to be vastly stronger than Thor while he was wearing his Belt of Power).

tystates Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Battle Royal thread is for these type
> discussions.

Why can't this be a separate thread? The battle Royal thread does not have a poll.

I think Thor would need to be " creative " and there would need to be a liberal judge for him to win. Jug's is not easy to get off the ground. Toe to toe I think the Juggernaut would defeat Thor.

Juggernaut is my favorite of the two lads.

But i think Thor would win, not so much based on Powers, but his intelligence and ability to think outside the box, besides he could easily play on Juggy's short temper and er...slowness.

That being said though, Thor is a bit short tempered himself, and sickenly 'self-righteous' so Juggy's taunts would make him go 'horse with blinders on'.

This is a toughy...

...Draw, or close either way.

Taarna Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> tystates Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The Battle Royal thread is for these type
> > discussions.
>
> Why can't this be a separate thread? The battle
> Royal thread does not have a poll.
>
> I think Thor would need to be " creative " and
> there would need to be a liberal judge for him to
> win. Jug's is not easy to get off the ground.
> Toe to toe I think the Juggernaut would defeat
> Thor.


I agree, I think we should have a seperate section just for vs. threads. What do everyone else think about that idea?

Because at the start of this board the battle royal thread was created so all the VS. discussions can go there. On the old board these things took up a lot of space on page one, so instead of a zillion seperate ones keep them all in one place. Less clutter. My opinon.

Here is a suggestion for the people that want their own thread for each and every battle. Create a new forum where you can put all your VS. debates. That way you can start a new thread and have a poll if you want, but for us who don't really get into these things it doesn't have to be in the way of everything else.

tystates Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is a suggestion for the people that want
> their own thread for each and every battle. Create
> a new forum where you can put all your VS.
> debates. That way you can start a new thread and
> have a poll if you want, but for us who don't
> really get into these things it doesn't have to be
> in the way of everything else.


That is what I meant to say. Have a seperate forum just for battles and vs. threads. I think that would be the best way to handle it.

This is something that I suggested on the old boards, and something that we are still considering now. But I wanted to see if just the separate thread would work better first. The poll thing is something I overlooked.

All of this is interesting. I think the idea of doing a seperate forum is really wise as in the long run there will always be an urge to pit heroes and villians against each other and going to one place to find them all is very sound[in terms of logic]! That way we can read up on what is already there and maybe try not to restate what was already said because of being too lazy/tired/eager to read the whole thread[or even topics] before putting our two cents in.

Question? Is everyone forgetting that Juggy is powered by magic and Thor's hammer is enchanted with magic endowments and abilities? Sure, toe to toe Thor is at a loss simply due to Juggy's endurance/invulnarability to physical harm, but a knock out punch is not the only way to win a fight! That's all, and I mean all, Juggy can hope for as Thor has all sorts of ways to put the smack down on Juggy?! I don't understand...but hey, at least its entertaining.

Taarna,

Once this topic fell to the second page, I merged it into this thread. These are the results of your poll:

Thor Vs Juggernaut. Who wins?
14 votes were received.
Thor 7 (50%)

Juggernaut 3 (21%)

Draw 4 (29%)

Hope this was a reasonable way to handle it. Feel free to send me a Private Message if you have questions or comments.

Thor could use lightning from Mjolnir to defeat Juggernaut. Now before you say something about that, here is what Thor and Mjolnir can do. Thor can control lightning WITHOUT Mjolnir, all it does is refine his control. However Mjolnir can shoot lightning from itself so that lightning should be magical which should be able to hurt Juggernaut as his protection from magical attacks is lower than from regular (non-magical) attacks. As always I remain Weapon T.

Thor since even though Juggernaut's powerful he's been beaten many times over the years by people far less than Thor class. It'd take little more than Thor opening a dimensional rift and tossing Juggernaut into another dimension to defeat him (remember defeat does not require someone to beat a guy unconscious to be victorious).

Weapon T Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thor could use lightning from Mjolnir to defeat
> Juggernaut. Now before you say something about
> that, here is what Thor and Mjolnir can do. Thor
> can control lightning WITHOUT Mjolnir, all it does
> is refine his control. However Mjolnir can shoot
> lightning from itself so that lightning should be
> magical which should be able to hurt Juggernaut as
> his protection from magical attacks is lower than
> from regular (non-magical) attacks. As always I
> remain Weapon T.

Back in the 90s when they fought Thors lighting had no effect on Juggernaunt, focusing all his goddly power he was able to force Juggs back a step but still didnt hurt him. In the comics Thor had to open a diminsional rift and throw him in

Here's a link to one of Punstarr's posts on the old board:

[www.classicmarvel.com]

Since Wizards was specifically battling the characters against each other, it seemed appropriate to have a link on this thread. I'm interested to hear who agree or disagrees with what they came up with, and why.

Here's another link I found to a page with the listings: [www.silver-surfer.us]

I'm almost in full agreement with the conclusion they came to.

It's interesting although I notice that for Superman just about all his victory conditions rely on the 'well with his super-speed they're toast' defense even though he's been defeated by psionically and magically enhanced people before (the Post-Crisis Milton Fine Brainiac for example or the mind domination from the retconned Maxwell Lord). I don't think it gives him that serious an advantage over the likes of Professor X or Dr. Strange and it comes down more to his impressive physical abilities and capacity to launch long-range attacks with things like his Heat Vision to distract and disorientate.

While I agree with you, I must add that part of what makes his long range attacks so effective is the speed with which they are delivered. If he was operating at normal human speed, Dr. Strange would eat him alive. That, I think, is the point that they were trying to make.

In any case....I thought the list was sweet. Thanks to Punstarr for posting it in the first place.

Oh yes it's nice to see how one particular polling of people rated things for this top Ten, although amusing the reference to Silver Surfer draining the solar energy from Superman considering several of the lower level characters could do similar to Silver Surfer (Quasar's done it as has Dynamo City) and forget out how easily Firestorm could whip up Kryptonite as an equalizer in a fight between him and Superman. So, many of the fights aren't as cut-and-dry as they present them to be.

I like it, although I don't care for how the list assumes that everyone higher can beat everyone lower on the list; it seems to me that there is no transitive property in comics. (A beats B, B beats C, but that doesn't mean A beats C). It's the same in fights in the real world, too; style makes fights, and characters who would have no problem against some in a fight might find a nemesis in another, even if they're lower on the list technically.

Firestorm gives Superman trouble, as noted, although the speed problem for both Superman and Flash gives them huge advantages. I would think Dr. Strange could whip up a spell either freezing or putting his own actions outside of time, so to speak, and would then give Superman, Flash and WW big trouble. Just one example. Also, I'm not so sure Silver Surfer would beat the magic characters so easily; magic-type characters have powers that seem to operate in a much different way in comics than the standard bruisers, depending on the writers.



Rules wise, though, it'd be interesting to actually run these fights under a judge's favorite rule-sets and house rules just to see if the outcome of the list is accurate.