Want the Hulk to fight Doomsday? Think Batman can take Spider Man? Maybe you think Juggernaut should have beaten Thor.

Place your bets, and opinions in this thread.

I'll start with...

Colossus vs. The Thing

I'm going to go with The Thing on this, even though I like Colossus better. It seems to me that The Thing is more of a natural brawler, and has greater experience in combat. Also, our stats for him here at Classic Marvel, show that his mental faculties are +1CS highter than Mr. Rasputins and I think that would give him an edge in a tactical situation.

I'd have to say the same. Though I like Colossus better I think the Thing would win.

But Colossus would do twice the damage per hit. I think that would give him an edge. If it turns into a wrestling match, the Thing owns it.

Since when is Colossus running Shift X strength? His strength is comparible to the Thing and they're in the general range of damage resistance and endurance, so only what'd really count is fighting ability and experience.
As such I think it'd go to the Thing.

I think Joe's going by the Profiles on this site, where Colossus is listed with UN Strength & AM protection and Ben is listed with MN Strength & AM protection...

By those figures, Colossus would do 50pts per full strength strike, whereas Ben would only do 25pts per full strength strike..

My personal take.. Ben wins this one, as I feel he's the superior fighter all around over Pete...

Sorry, Pete.. Thing Smash!

Redman II Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think Joe's going by the Profiles on this site,
> where Colossus is listed with UN Strength & AM
> protection and Ben is listed with MN Strength & AM
> protection...
>
> By those figures, Colossus would do 50pts per full
> strength strike, whereas Ben would only do 25pts
> per full strength strike..
>
> My personal take.. Ben wins this one, as I feel
> he's the superior fighter all around over Pete...
>
> Sorry, Pete.. Thing Smash!

Yes, you are right. I am going by the stats on this site and the game rules.

Colossus -=VS=- Thing…..

My $$$$$$ goes on Ben Grim… While Petir’s and Ben’s stats change from time to time Ben is consistently illustrated with Greater Strength and more experience as a ‘Fighter’….. Not to mention, Ben probably outweighs Petir…. Giving Ben some minor advantages in sheer size and mass….

Also, Ben’s intellect is not too shabby as an avid Pilot and a highly intelligent ‘Technician’

Also, Ben has a great deal of Financial, Business, and other Resources at his disposal; such as Military connections and similar NASA assets established…

And Finally (All I can think of)…. Ben cannot ‘Transform’ into a Normal Human as easily as Petir….



While Petir is one of the ‘Heavy Hitters’ he is more illustrated as a Collage Football Player who is just beginning to realize his true potential….. Plus, Ben has locked horns with (and defeated) many more fearsome opponents…

Here is a battle concept I've been thinking about. In one-on-one battles, who would defeat who , from the original line up of the Fantastic Four?

Mr. Fantastic vs. Invisible Woman

Invisible Woman vs. Human Torch

Human Torch vs. Thing

And so on, and so forth.

I'm putting my money on Sue for most of the battles in this thing. Mostly because her Invisibility really gives her an edge, on using her Force Field more efficiently. Not sure what she could do with Mr. Grimm however. I suppose she could encase his head with her Force Field and choke him out, but his Strength and Endurance could prove up to the challenge. Human torch has the whole Nova Blast thing, which makes him a problem to deal with too. Not to mention that Reed can invent something to take out his opponents if he needed to. Crazy fights all around.

Those would all be tuff calls……

All four of them are sort of like a Chinese Element Smack Down…. (Paper, Rock, Scissors)


Does Ben need Oxygen???? I forgot…

But in a No Holds Barred ‘Death Match’ I’d say Ben would be the Lone Survivor out of the 4…. He’d go all-postal and just become nearly indestructible…… I’d see Ben becoming almost immune to temperature extremes and starvation or suffocation…. Basically becoming able to ‘Eat’ Rocks and gain a simulated from of Regeneration and Revival…… And possibility gaining greater Strength and more Gnarly combat tactics, such as jagged rocks all over him or some type of Energized Armor over his Stone Flesh…. Or some type of cannon over his shoulder….



I’d say Johnny would be third to get Dropped…. Some type of Ariel Combat with an air-craft would be required…. Which the other 3 have access to… At just about every battle engagement Johnny would foil any of the other 3 and down the Air-Crafts….. But eventually Reed or Sue, but mostly likely Ben, would be able to use some type of ‘Weapon’ to subdue Johnny…..



Sue would be the Second to get Dropped…. She’d either get Fried by Johnny or Ben would just pound on her Force Fields until she passes out…. Reed could do some gnarly stuff too, but he seems to be vulnerable to Sue in millions of ways….



Reed would probably be the First to get dropped….. Burnt to a crisp or Shredded by invisible Force…. But Reed would be the only one able to tangle with Ben for extended periods of time…. Allowing him to eventually defeat Ben…..

Well you have to consider the settings; are they only making use of their powers or do they have optimal materials around for full effectiveness. Reed's genius is of limited use without technology available for kitbashing for example.

Depending on her timing Susan could take out her brother by simply getting a force field on him that was tight enough he'd burn off his oxygen before he could overload the force field and escape, Reed though is highly flexible and would require effort to bottle him up and he could in a hardcore battle manage to get his hand around her head to smother her into unconciousness. Her invisibility is something he's experienced enough it's not that large a tactical advantage against him as it is for many others. Using her force field in a more lethal fashion though she could chip away at the Thing's armored hide and as she once pointed out to Dr. Doom she could insert her force field through a hole and expand it to shred a target, like him so could do the same to Ben through his mouth.

Reed would win if he had access to technology as I'm sure he's got 'The Fantastic Four Protocols' in order to defeat any team member when required if mind-controlled or turned evil. With the others he'd only take Johnny if he had the means to use the environment to take him out as his powers can't directly (like trick him into water), could only take Susan if he kept her from bottling him up in her force field, and only take the Thing if again he could get him into a situation where his strength would be useless (like drowning in a lake or trick him into hitting a tanker of liquid oxygen).

The Thing is in the most limited position since he has no ranged attacks (other than chucking local materials) and relies on brute strength and his durability to win through. Everyone else has a far wider range of flexibility with their powers and can attack him at range for the most part and whittle him away if he can't make use of the terrain against the othes.

Reed's most dangerous attribute is his genius if the terrain allows him to exploit it, otherwise he's only able to make use of his plasticity which won't let him take out Johnny or the Thing very well and Susan it's only good if he can surprise her.

In the end the biggest problem is they're all so adept at combat and know each other so well it often comes down to a cointoss and how well the terrain cooperates as to who would win in the end.

freak time portal accident pits the Invaders (Captain America, Namor, Original Human Torch) against the Original X-men (Cyclops, Marvel Girl, Beast, Iceman, Angel)

i think the x-men would have the early advantage due to numbers, but since originaky they were young and not battle experenced, i think better fighting skills of the Invaders combined with Caps leadership would give them the advantage the longer the fight went on

Dude I'm in agreement with you on this one. Invaders for the win.

Also I wanted to mention to everyone that it would be cool if you could put the match up your posting about in the Subject space. It makes it nicer for people to search for the material later if they want to. Like someday when someone wants to search for Thing vs. Colossus, it will be more difficult because I have already failed to to that.

Anyone else think this is a good idea?

Redman II Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think Joe's going by the Profiles on this site,
> where Colossus is listed with UN Strength & AM
> protection and Ben is listed with MN Strength & AM
> protection...
>
> By those figures, Colossus would do 50pts per full
> strength strike, whereas Ben would only do 25pts
> per full strength strike..
>
> My personal take.. Ben wins this one, as I feel
> he's the superior fighter all around over Pete...
>
> Sorry, Pete.. Thing Smash!

The classic Thing was stronger than Colossus,( According to Marvel Universe ) and I believe the new Ultimates version is too.

I never viewed Colossus as a skilled fighter or character that thinks well on his feet. The Thing is a skilled fighter who thinks on his feet, and has both Martial arts and wrestling skills.

I think the Thing would defeat Colossus 8 times out of 10.

Now take the Fantastic Four vs a choice cut of any four X-Men... who do you think would be the four to wipe the floor with the FF?

Taarna Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Redman II Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think Joe's going by the Profiles on this
> site,
> > where Colossus is listed with UN Strength & AM
> > protection and Ben is listed with MN Strength &
> AM
> > protection...
> >
> > By those figures, Colossus would do 50pts per
> full
> > strength strike, whereas Ben would only do
> 25pts
> > per full strength strike..
> >
> > My personal take.. Ben wins this one, as I feel
> > he's the superior fighter all around over
> Pete...
> >
> > Sorry, Pete.. Thing Smash!
>
> The classic Thing was stronger than Colossus,(
> According to Marvel Universe ) and I believe the
> new Ultimates version is too.
>
> I never viewed Colossus as a skilled fighter or
> character that thinks well on his feet. The
> Thing is a skilled fighter who thinks on his feet,
> and has both Martial arts and wrestling skills.
>
> I think the Thing would defeat Colossus 8 times
> out of 10.

If my understanding is correct, the Thing is still in the 85 tons range and Colossus is now in the Class 100 range. I think this edge would give him the win in a brawl. In a wrestling match the Thing has the edge.

Punstarr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Now take the Fantastic Four vs a choice cut of any
> four X-Men... who do you think would be the four
> to wipe the floor with the FF?


I think a fair match for the Fantastic Four would be...
1) Colossus
2) Iceman
3) Phoniex
4) Forge

The 4 -=VS=- Some X-Men…..

Magneto : Even though he’s the ‘Villain’ he always breaks down to help the X-Men.

Da-Jagga-Not “Bish”: Cuz Jugg is like Magneto’s puppy dog.



Phoniex:

Colossus:

Night Crawler: Savage, Mean MO-FO Night Crawler

Rogue: The full-blown version where she has Strength and Flight.




I’d also say the ‘Full Monte’ Wolverine, Gambit, Storm and Cyclops….. When they can execute MN:75+ Damage without using Karma and they wear their ‘Full’ Battle Scrubs.

I believe I've seen references to Thing being in the CL100 range for strength now (which is a massive growth from being in the 5ton range starting out), which considering he's suffered multiple mutational events since the original write-up came out and still has Reed building him work-out equipment (although I wonder where Reed got Sports Medicine along with the rest of his talents) isn't so hard to believe that the Thing's in the CL100 range now. More difficult to see Colossus in that range considering he's been DEAD for a while and hardly in the position to be training or bulking up from his original levels.

Having Thing in the Unearthly range in what I understood as well.

Although I think even with only Monstrous Strength, as listed in the Profiles section of this website, he could still take Colossus.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2008 11:31AM by The Last Duskblade.

I’ve seen Game Status Sheets of Ben having UN:100 and SX-150 Strength….. But he had limitations detailed in his page…

Basically, he couldn’t ‘Heft’ 100 + Tons over his shoulder.. That was at AM:50 into low end MN:75…

But if he hit or grabbed you he could do 100 to 150 Points of Damage……

Not that I am an expert in the workings of Ben Grimm mind you, but I have to disagree with those rules. Personally I have never seen his do anything to validate a Strength in the Shift-X category. But I'm willing to learn, of course. If he is in the Unearthly range for Strength now, that is his maximum in my mind, and would be in my game. In any case I think the fact that he is a superior fighter is what gives him the big fat win over Colossus. Damage is important too however, so if there is something I am missing from his exploits that validate that awesome stat...fill me in.

I think it all depends on what Thing an what Colossus we are talking about. Remember they both have had power fluxuations. But on Main stream the Clobbering time king would win by KO.

Agreed. There are probably certain times where the tide could turn the other way. But for the most part....

Thing Smash!!! (as someone else put so eloquently)

Hold it down Nightmask! Everything you say is fact! But one thing [no pun intended] missed is speed! Our little rocky friend is much faster than he looks and Colossus can't hurt what he can't hit! Besides are we forgettin that Mr Grimm is a military man? Like our boy Pete, but it's a cinch for The Thing!

I think the Author of those Ben Grim stats (where Grim had UN:100 + Strength) wanted to get a specific point across to Players and GMs….

Mainly his ‘HIT Power’ and a few Additional HP and being powerful enough to Slam, KO, Chock-Out, and Damage some of the really heavy hitters.



The Stat Page did have a Strength limitation listed, which was specific to lifting….. (which was Ben’s regular ol’ Strength)


But I find it weird, why wouldn’t the Author simply write out his ‘Hit Power’ as a specific ‘Power’…. Rather than doing it sort of backwards……




But for the next battle royal question???

Da Jugga-Not -=VS=- Dr. DOOMZ




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/17/2008 09:06PM by TankerAce.

I would like to see a confrontation between Magneto (back when he was undisputedly "a bad guy", since his displays of power were much more effective and significant then) and Graviton. I think it would be a pretty even match that could go either way on any given day, but just imagine the destruction wrought by two guys each in command of one of the four fundamental forces of the universe.

That would be pretty impressive, although Graviton had a theory that was apparently sound that bringing together individuals representing the various fundamental forces could cause their powers to grow even stronger, so it's possible getting him and Magneto in close proximity could cause their powers to amp up.

Doom would somehow find the Gem and usurp Juggernaut's power for himself (although after he was tricked repudiated the magical beings giving him magic during his one encounter with the FF and got him torment in a demon realm for a while he might not risk doing such where he'd be left subject to a patron like Cytorrak for his power).

I agree. Juggernaut stands zero chance vs Doom. If nothing else, Cain is easily manipulated.

I'd have to agree, Cain has never been the brightest bulb in the lamp. And he runs into the range issue, sure he can throw stuff but Doom has tons of tech + magic. I think we would end up with JuggerDoom.