If you go by the comics, the Surfer has -always- been understatted in this game. Dude's in a class all on his own.

Heh, now watch this topic get absolutely no replies now that it got moved here.

Tis generally the way of the vs thread.

Yeah this aint right. This is a good debate in regards to Marvels top honcho and DC's top honcho. It should get its own thread. This sucks.....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2012 10:34AM by Herpes.

Bitching is not going to make things change. You see how large this thread is? You guys know it's here and this is where these types of discussions go.

Hey I wasn't bitching, man.

I was just being cheeky.

Naw this one is a good thread that went down the drain. How does one become a mod here? Changes need to be made

I like the Silver Surfer against just about anybody. His power can effect you on the level of your neutrons. Can't touch that,
His initial comic appearances in FF had him majorly reduced by Galactus and easier to be tormented by Doom.
He was still fighting the Hulk and trying to deal on Mephisto.
He is handicapped only by his humanity. He has an unfortunate habit of talking to his opponents before fighting, mostly because he can kill most of them.






on that other note, I would pick Mid-Nighter against any non flyer combat character, who does not have armor or crazy healing, with Health under 300.
He has two hearts and his healing is huge. He is also a ruthless hand to hand who does not hesitate to kill.
The power levels in Authority were higher than most DC titles, so he is used to going up against the worst of the worst, running the fight through hundreds of times in his head in a second and then beating them (I'd give him UN100 Weakness Detection)
This is the guy who could beat Captain America, maybe.
The black leather outfit is also pretty sweet.

Tigerfaced God said:
"I would pick Mid-Nighter against any non flyer combat character, who does not have armor or crazy healing, with Health under 300."
- I was leaning there myself...Psylocke is just is to to frail compared to Mid-nighter.

As far as Silver Surfer. Yes he could rock a buncha dudes.
The Defender Core Team: Hulk, Dr. Strange, Surfer, and Namor-these guys were awesome!

If he could rock Superman how does Superman have soo much higher stats????

He can boost his Elemental Conversion power to Shift Z. Superman would be 1 round away from experiencing his life as a "normal" human, because the Surfer wouldn't need to hurt him once he altered him on the atomic level.

Herpes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How does one become a mod here? Changes
> need to be made

ROFLMMFAO. You registered four days ago and you're asking to be a mod. Classic.

Tigerfaced God Wrote:
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> He can boost his Elemental Conversion power to
> Shift Z. Superman would be 1 round away from
> experiencing his life as a "normal" human, because
> the Surfer wouldn't need to hurt him once he
> altered him on the atomic level.

Well first off, Silver Surfer is my all-time favorite comic book character. I think he'd beat a "given" Superman because of the versatility of his Power Cosmic.

Second off, remember that the stats you are reading here are house rules, not official. They are not binding and a lot of people would stat these two characters in a way that Superman would win.

Third, no, using Shift-Z Elemental Conversion on Superman wouldn't turn him into a normal human in a round. Superman was literally the model for the True Invulnerability power. As such he should Column Shift the Surfer's Conversion attack down as per the Ultimate Powers Book. That would knock the Shift-Z down to Typical. Even if that wasn't the case the UPB write-up for Elemental Conversion says the Judge is free to decide the results of partial protection to Elemental Conversion, but it also lists definite powers that resist it including Force Field vs. Energy, Resistance to Energy, and T.I. The new write-up for Superman has not one but two of these. On top of that, this write-up for Supes has these 4 powers at Shift-Y(!):

• Solar Absorption and Storage
• Regeneration
• Self Recovery
• Self Revival

That's too much at too high a level for Shift-Z Conversion to kill.

Lastly, you are technically comparing apples-and-oranges because you are using the Superman stats from the "new" phorum and comparing them to the Silver Surfer stats from the "old" phorum. This:
[www.classicmarvelforever.com]
against this
[www.classicmarvelforever.com]
But Superman was stated on the old phorum too and they are different:
[www.classicmarvelforever.com]
This is important because a lot of the members of these boards have changed over the years. So the people who produced the current stats for Supes aren't necessarily the same people who changed Silver Surfer's stats back-in-the-day (he has official stats and they are weaker than these). But, the people who did the old stats for Supes probably were the same people that did the Surfer's stats. That's an apples-to-apples situation and in that case that old Supe's stats might make him even tougher because that one has CL3000 Solar Absorption and Storage. A lot of Judges would say that considering Superman can practically come back from the dead because of his solar powers, and this solar stat is beyond Shift-Z Elemental Conversion's chance to affect, that Superman can't be converted in a way that stops his solar powers.


...Surfer is still better though ...

Superman's powers depends on a yellow sun. I would assume a small change on a sub-atomic level would change everything... or Surfer could just synthesis red sunlight or radiation from Kryptonite. Imagine this, I turn the iron in your blood into copper or uranium, or chlorine. That would kill anything and you are talking of a tiny amount of the target being changed. The range of Sufer's powers are far more vast than Superman's defenses. The hardest part, to me at least, when trying to play powers like this is my lack of knowledge concerning biology, chemistry and physical science. Pity they don't teach you impossible science in college. So honestly I am just guessing how one alien's superpowers would effect another but it sounded good to me.

I have played this game since 1991, and I think I have all the books, but not all the adventure modules. My e-mail changed so I can't get in to my old account, I guess I haven't been on here for about five years.

I think the Surfer would win. He's basically as much of a heavy-hitter but the Power Cosmic is much more versatile. I always envisioned it being a stalemate until the Surfer figures out either the yellow-sun-angle or the kryptonite-angle.

But like I pointed out, it's not the strategy that's in question. It's the respective Power Ranks. Of course it's the call of the Judge, but Superman's new write-up on this site gives him a half a dozen defensive power ranging from Unearthly to Shift-Y. And I frankly think it's flat-out wrong to think Superman has the "weaker" True Invulnerability listed in some of the Netbooks on this site. True Invulnerability was modeled on Superman and officially Column Shifts attacks down. That makes Shift-Z attacks only do Typical. And then he has all those healing powers at Shift-Y.

So the point is not that the strategy of altering Superman's body is wrong. It's simply that, with these stats, Shift-Z probably isn't enough. You'd need CL1000 or better to pull it off. But picking up a watermelon and converting that into kryptonite to use against him? Yeah, that works. That's because instead of an Unearthly bioeletric Force Field + Unearthly True Invulnerability + Shift-Y Solar Absorption and Storage + Shift-Y Regeneration + Shift-Y Self Recovery + Shift-Y Self Revival fighting your Shift-Z Conversion you simply have a watermelon fighting you Conversion.

And to be perfectly honest, I don't read the Surfer write-up on this site as having the ability to boost his Conversion and Mechanical Creation powers up to Shift-Z anyway. The "Ability Boost" section doesn't mean "can boost anything he wants". What he can boost is specifically enumerated: Agility, Strength, Body Armor. Additionally it specifically says he can boost his Plasma Generation. That's it. I'd say this write-up clearly has Elemental Conversion, Molecular Conversion, and Mechanical Creation stuck at Unearthly only. In which case the whole argument is moot, as either Superman write-up can deal with that level of power.


...Surfer's still better though ...

You just know they would talk to much.


I wonder how hard it would be to transform the O2 in air in Superman's lungs into Kryptonite? Surfer knows a lot about deep space, I bet he knows about the planet blowing up. Bet he would figure that weakness out quick.

I really don't like high powered campaigns. You roll dice and do math. I like the game where my character actually has to concern himself when a pistol is pulled.
I like old noir stuff. I'd be happy fighting gangsters and spies in the 1930's, but in a world where you could have a King Kong and a super villain like Dr. Fu Man Chu.
Where being able to fly or punch down a wall would have a huge impact.

So I guess everyone here is saying Superman for the win based on his body armor, solar absorbing rank, and crazy high stats.

Herpes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So I guess everyone here is saying Superman for
> the win based on his body armor, solar absorbing
> rank, and crazy high stats.

The exact opposite actually. Myself, Tigerfaced God, and Punstarr all said the Surfer would win. Who said Superman would win? Doesn't look like anyone posted that in this thread.

I was reading how you said his elemental converison ability wouldn't work on superman because of his high body armor and resistances. How tough it is to hurt superman then with you ending it by saying surfer is still better though.

Herpes Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was reading how you said his elemental
> converison ability wouldn't work on superman
> because of his high body armor and resistances.
> How tough it is to hurt superman then with you
> ending it by saying surfer is still better though.

Yeah but the first paragraph of my first post says, "I think he'd beat a 'given' Superman..." and the first sentence of my second post says "I think the Surfer would win."

My posts are specifically about the Shift-Z Conversion angle against Superman's body. I don't think that would work. But the Surfer can beat him without doing that. So he'd still win, just using a different tactic.

Hello All,

As I was doing my research for write-up on Dr.Strange, it occurred to me...Who would win in a battle between the Silver Surfer versus Dr.Strange? One possesses the "power cosmic" incarnate while the other is amongst the most powerful masters of sorcery in the marvel universe. What say you?

Both have the power to take the other down. So I will leave it with who goes first.

waverider Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello All,
>
> As I was doing my research for write-up
> on Dr.Strange, it occurred to me...Who would win
> in a battle between the Silver Surfer versus
> Dr.Strange? One possesses the "power cosmic"
> incarnate while the other is amongst the most
> powerful masters of sorcery in the marvel
> universe. What say you?

I've always felt that Strange should have been an even heavier hitter than he's been portrayed as, and he's portrayed as quite powerful. But he's supposed to be the Sorcerer Supreme of the Earth Dimension. I would think that puts you waaaay up there, able to handle a herald of Galactus at least if not Galactus himself. But I say the Surfer takes it. The Surfer walks around utterly stacked with power. Strange has to buff himself and constantly "work" at putting together feats that the Surfer can simply do at whim.

true_dweomer had said: I would think that puts you waaaay up there, able to handle a herald of Galactus at least if not Galactus himself

No doubt there in fact Strange has taken down Galactus.


Both Strange and Surfer are awesome and fierce but..as I said earlier it comes down to initiative.

nightson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> true_dweomer had said: I would think that puts
> you waaaay up there, able to handle a herald of
> Galactus at least if not Galactus himself
>
> No doubt there in fact Strange has taken down
> Galactus.
> [www.universomarvel.com.aq]
> e-Galactus-2.jpg
>
> Both Strange and Surfer are awesome and fierce
> but..as I said earlier it comes down to
> initiative.

Isn't that from the issue where Galactus is horribly starved? Because I really doubt Strange would pull off something on Galactus even remotely close to a good meal for him.

Haven't seen a bump on this thread in a while, I chose not to post, because It's not like my opinion is gonna be a surprise I do have mad respect for Surfer, and Strange though. They are two of favorite comic characters, Marvel or DC. But Supes still takes the cake every time.

...so...has anyone tried the classic "Superman versus Mighty Mouse" debate yet...?

8)

Alivia Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...so...has anyone tried the classic "Superman
> versus Mighty Mouse" debate yet...?
>
> 8)

Not that I'm aware of. I think MIghty Mouse was never depicted with the kind of power levels to where he'd have a chance against Superman. Maybe Supermouse but not Mighty Mouse.

Danger Mouse and Penfold whipes the floor with all of them.

How about the following:

Dormammu vs Mephsto in earth's dimension.

Professor X vs Moondragon

Magneto vs Graviton

Beast vs Sabretooth

Dracula vs Baron Mordo

One of the earlier battles on this thread was Batman vs Captain America, here's my take on it.

Cap starts the battle by throwing his shield and at the same time rushes in hoping Batman forgets about the shield after dodging it. Batman falls for it but his superior awareness allows him to avoid being knocked out by the rebounding shield though he is hit. Cap delivers a series of devastating punches and kicks taking advantage of Batman's slip up. Batman realizes he's in trouble and will lose unless he can somehow trick Cap. Batman tries to put some distance between him and Cap.

Cap knows he has to keep up his momentum and see Batman is on the retreat. Cap calculates another rebound shot to put more pressure on Batman but the split second to calculate gives Batman the distance he needed to refocus his efforts. The shield grazes Batman's arm but he barely manages to dodge it, even so Batman appears injured. Cap rushes towards Batman to finish it not realizing that Batman placed an explosive device on the shield.

BOOM!!!

We have a winner. Batman goes back to his cave to wait for his broken bones to heal.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/26/2012 07:45PM by Outcast.