I think Cap's intuition would noticed a bomb but that's me.

MajorSteel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I Think Cap's intuition would have noticed a
> bomb but that's me.

Considering people have tried that in the comics and failed I imagine Batman would too, particularly what with Cap's shield being indestructible. Cap's always aware of things that cause his shield to respond differently, just picking it up from a pile of replicas he knew instantly what it was.




Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2013 03:55AM by The_Skycutter.

I think victory for Batman depends on rather or not he can trick Cap. From what I've seen the fighters use the following methods.

Batman: Relys on stealth, distraction, misdirection, and speed using gadgets to limit/ injure his foe. Often attacking at night when foes suffer penalties from fatigue and impaired vision. Don't remember seeing Batman in a sustained battle. If anyone can trick Cap in Combat Batman at least has a chance.

Captain America: A relentless combatant who takes the battle to his foe in broad daylight. Able to pour it on and KEEP pouring it on. Stronger and more durable than a normal human with 1/10 reaction time. Limited mainly by his use of only 1 weapon.

In the battle I see Batman trying to use his misdirection tactics to create an opening while Cap charges in trying to take Batman down as quickly as possible. If Cap get close in he could probably overwhelm Batman. If Batman can use the explosives or somehow catch Cap unexpectedly he might be able to take it.

If batman were to win, I think it be around cap throwing his shield and bouncing it off many targets. Trick him, divert shield and he may have the chance.

Outcast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How about the following:
>
> Professor X vs Moondragon

Prof X is supposed to be the most powerful telepath on the planet, so you would expect this one to go to him.

> Magneto vs Graviton

On the human scale electro-magnetic forces are a lot more powerful than gravitational ones. But the Player's Handbook gives Graviton Shift Y powers, compared to Magneto's Unearthly. So I think it's one of those ones that's too close to call.

> Beast vs Sabretooth

Sabretooth has the killer instinct and a healing factor. It's no contest.

Outcast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think victory for Batman depends on rather or
> not he can trick Cap. From what I've seen the
> fighters use the following methods.
>
> Batman: Relys on stealth, distraction,
> misdirection, and speed using gadgets to limit/
> injure his foe. Often attacking at night when foes
> suffer penalties from fatigue and impaired vision.
> Don't remember seeing Batman in a sustained
> battle. If anyone can trick Cap in Combat Batman
> at least has a chance.
>
> Captain America: A relentless combatant who takes
> the battle to his foe in broad daylight. Able to
> pour it on and KEEP pouring it on. Stronger and
> more durable than a normal human with 1/10
> reaction time. Limited mainly by his use of only 1
> weapon.
>
> In the battle I see Batman trying to use his
> misdirection tactics to create an opening while
> Cap charges in trying to take Batman down as
> quickly as possible. If Cap get close in he could
> probably overwhelm Batman. If Batman can use the
> explosives or somehow catch Cap unexpectedly he
> might be able to take it.

Cap's actual fighting style:
* Close Quarters Combat (CQC) or Close Quarters Battle (CQB ):
World War II-era American combatives were largely codified by Britons William E. Fairbairn and Eric A. Sykes;
a type of fighting in which (usually) small units engage the enemy with personal weapons at very short range, potentially to the point of hand-to-hand combat or fighting with hand weapons such as swords or knives. Because enemies, hostages/civilians, and fellow operators can be closely intermingled, CQC demands a rapid assault and a precise application of lethal force. CQC is defined as a short-duration, high-intensity conflict, characterized by sudden violence at close range.
-Principles of assault
* Detailed planning: gathering all available intelligence about the crisis scene, targets, and innocents.
* Surprise: The objective is to complete all offensive action before the party being engaged is able to react; uses stealth movement and noise/light discipline to get as close to the targets as possible, positioning to engage an enemy from the moment he becomes aware of them.
* Methods of entry: either working slowly and deliberately, using ballistic shields and mirrors whilte searching for innocent bystanders or suspects, or dynamic entry (bursting in -rapidly and aggressively - in a continuous flow, using overwhelming force that does not stop until the threat is eliminated) to seize the area.
* Speed: gaining control before the target understands what is happening and can prepare an effective defense or mount a counterattack.
* Violence of Action: gaining and maintaining physical and psychological momentum.
* Defendu: a hand-to-hand combat system based on practical experience mixed with jujutsu and boxing; Fairbairn often referred to the technique as "gutter fighting".

Let's just be Christopher Nolan and assume Batman's a ninja...:
* The 18 skills of the Togakure Ryu Ninja:
* Seishin Teki Kyoyo (Spiritual Refinement): developing a deep and accurate knowledge of himself, his personal power, his strengths and weaknesses, and his influence on the playing out of life.
* Tai Jutsu (Unarmed Combat): Skills of daken-taijutsu or striking, kicking, and blocking; jutai-jutsu or grappling, choking and escaping the holds of others, and taihenjutsu or silent movement, rolling, leaping, and tumbling.
* Weapons training: Ninja Ken (Ninja Sword), Bo-Jutsu (Stick and Staff Fighting), Shuriken-Jutsu (Throwing Blades), Yari-Jutsu(Spear Fighting), Naginata-Jutsu (Halberd Fighting), Kusari-Gama (Chain and Sickle Weapon)
* Kayaku-Jutsu (Fire and Explosives): the effective placement, timing, and rigging of explosive devices for demolition and distraction.
* Henso-Jutsu (Disguise and Impersonation): involved thoroughly impersonating the character adopted. Personality traits, areas of knowledge, and body dynamics of the identity assumed were ingrained into the nijna's way of thinking and reacting.
* Shinobi-Iri (Stealth and Entering Methods): techniques of silent movement, breaking and entering, and gaining access to inaccessible areas.
* Ba-Jutsu (Horsemanship)
* Sui-Ren (Water Training): Stealth swimming, silent movement through water, methods of using special boats and floats to cross over water, and underwater combat techniques.
* Bo-Ryaku (Strategy): Unconventional tactics of deception and battle, political plots, and advantageous timing for use of current events.
* Cho Ho (Espionage)
* Inton-Jutsu (Escape and Concealment): using nature to cover their exit, allowing them to "disappear" at will.
* Ten-Mon (Meteorology): Forecasting and taking advantage of weather and seasonal phenomena.
* Chi-Mon (Geography): Knowing and successfully using the features of the terrain

Similarites in styles: both emphasize preparation, rapid action, psychological control & distraction, and practical (down and dirty) hand to hand combat.
differences in style: CQC emphasizes control of the environment, Togakure Ryu emphasizes control through understanding yourself and your enemy.

so the conflict of combat methodologies is equally shock and awe vs hide and seek/hit and run as it is full assault vs precision strike.


that's all I have to say about that...would you like a chocolate?

Brotherless_one Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Outcast Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I think victory for Batman depends on rather or
> > not he can trick Cap. From what I've seen the
> > fighters use the following methods.
> >
> > Batman: Relys on stealth, distraction,
> > misdirection, and speed using gadgets to limit/
> > injure his foe. Often attacking at night when
> foes
> > suffer penalties from fatigue and impaired
> vision.
> > Don't remember seeing Batman in a sustained
> > battle. If anyone can trick Cap in Combat
> Batman
> > at least has a chance.
> >
> > Captain America: A relentless combatant who
> takes
> > the battle to his foe in broad daylight. Able
> to
> > pour it on and KEEP pouring it on. Stronger and
> > more durable than a normal human with 1/10
> > reaction time. Limited mainly by his use of only
> 1
> > weapon.
> >
> > In the battle I see Batman trying to use his
> > misdirection tactics to create an opening while
> > Cap charges in trying to take Batman down as
> > quickly as possible. If Cap get close in he
> could
> > probably overwhelm Batman. If Batman can use
> the
> > explosives or somehow catch Cap unexpectedly he
> > might be able to take it.
>
> Cap's actual fighting style:
> * Close Quarters Combat (CQC) or Close Quarters
> Battle (CQB ):
> World War II-era American combatives were largely
> codified by Britons William E. Fairbairn and Eric
> A. Sykes;
> a type of fighting in which (usually) small units
> engage the enemy with personal weapons at very
> short range, potentially to the point of
> hand-to-hand combat or fighting with hand weapons
> such as swords or knives. Because enemies,
> hostages/civilians, and fellow operators can be
> closely intermingled, CQC demands a rapid assault
> and a precise application of lethal force. CQC is
> defined as a short-duration, high-intensity
> conflict, characterized by sudden violence at
> close range.
> -Principles of assault
> * Detailed planning: gathering all
> available intelligence about the crisis scene,
> targets, and innocents.
> * Surprise: The objective is to
> complete all offensive action before the party
> being engaged is able to react; uses stealth
> movement and noise/light discipline to get as
> close to the targets as possible, positioning to
> engage an enemy from the moment he becomes aware
> of them.
> * Methods of entry: either working
> slowly and deliberately, using ballistic shields
> and mirrors whilte searching for innocent
> bystanders or suspects, or dynamic entry (bursting
> in -rapidly and aggressively - in a continuous
> flow, using overwhelming force that does not stop
> until the threat is eliminated) to seize the
> area.
> * Speed: gaining control before
> the target understands what is happening and can
> prepare an effective defense or mount a
> counterattack.
> * Violence of Action: gaining and
> maintaining physical and psychological momentum.
> * Defendu: a hand-to-hand combat
> system based on practical experience mixed with
> jujutsu and boxing; Fairbairn often referred to
> the technique as "gutter fighting".
>
> Let's just be Christopher Nolan and assume
> Batman's a ninja...:
> * The 18 skills of the Togakure Ryu Ninja:
> * Seishin Teki Kyoyo (Spiritual Refinement):
> developing a deep and accurate knowledge of
> himself, his personal power, his strengths and
> weaknesses, and his influence on the playing out
> of life.
> * Tai Jutsu (Unarmed Combat): Skills of
> daken-taijutsu or striking, kicking, and blocking;
> jutai-jutsu or grappling, choking and escaping the
> holds of others, and taihenjutsu or silent
> movement, rolling, leaping, and tumbling.
> * Weapons training: Ninja Ken (Ninja Sword),
> Bo-Jutsu (Stick and Staff Fighting),
> Shuriken-Jutsu (Throwing Blades), Yari-Jutsu(Spear
> Fighting), Naginata-Jutsu (Halberd Fighting),
> Kusari-Gama (Chain and Sickle Weapon)
> * Kayaku-Jutsu (Fire and Explosives): the
> effective placement, timing, and rigging of
> explosive devices for demolition and distraction.
> * Henso-Jutsu (Disguise and Impersonation):
> involved thoroughly impersonating the character
> adopted. Personality traits, areas of knowledge,
> and body dynamics of the identity assumed were
> ingrained into the nijna's way of thinking and
> reacting.
> * Shinobi-Iri (Stealth and Entering Methods):
> techniques of silent movement, breaking and
> entering, and gaining access to inaccessible
> areas.
> * Ba-Jutsu (Horsemanship)
> * Sui-Ren (Water Training): Stealth swimming,
> silent movement through water, methods of using
> special boats and floats to cross over water, and
> underwater combat techniques.
> * Bo-Ryaku (Strategy): Unconventional tactics
> of deception and battle, political plots, and
> advantageous timing for use of current events.
> * Cho Ho (Espionage)
> * Inton-Jutsu (Escape and Concealment): using
> nature to cover their exit, allowing them to
> "disappear" at will.
> * Ten-Mon (Meteorology): Forecasting and
> taking advantage of weather and seasonal
> phenomena.
> * Chi-Mon (Geography): Knowing and
> successfully using the features of the terrain
>
> Similarites in styles: both emphasize preparation,
> rapid action, psychological control & distraction,
> and practical (down and dirty) hand to hand
> combat.
> differences in style: CQC emphasizes control of
> the environment, Togakure Ryu emphasizes control
> through understanding yourself and your enemy.
>
> so the conflict of combat methodologies is equally
> shock and awe vs hide and seek/hit and run as it
> is full assault vs precision strike.
>
>
> that's all I have to say about that...would you
> like a chocolate?
> [upload.wikimedia.org]
> estGump2.jpg


Yeah, kinda figured as much. But WW2 was a long time ago, since then Steve has been training with SHIELD. Even so his tactics seem geared more towards the charge in where Batman uses more misdirection. This is most evident I think in the equipment they use.

A lot may be riding on the environment they fight in also.

i think if cap and batman fought 100 times it would be close to 50/50 on win ratios they to evenly matched.

Take away the gadgets I think Batman win. He just has a more aggressive outlook.
with gadgets I think Cap would win.

It just occurred to me that Captain America has been training with the circular shield since 1961. He was Army Ranger trained in WWII and had some time with it before being trapped in ice. He doesn't need another weapon.

Their ages are close BUT Cap was frozen for years and has the Super Soldier serum, that make him young and helps him heal. Bruce is getting old and all those injuries are stiffening joints and leaving scar tissue. Steve Rogers will be physically 25 years old forever, Bruce Wayne will be in a wheel chair as his vertebra deteriorate.

This is how I see it.

Batman (a Frank Miller Dark Knight version, which is more realistic) matches Cap for a few minutes. The injuries and decades of fighting catch up with him as Cap get's through with the shield. Batman utilizes the belt. Cap avoids the first three attack, but does not see the fourth. Cap ducks a right haymaker and steps into a four finger strike to his throat. He won't go down but as he steps back, Captain America notices the forth attack is a blinking sphere attached to shield. He clamps the shield to the ground, smothering the timed explosive. Captain America takes a hook kick to his head and drops. Batman moves in, holding his broken ribs. Reaching for a restraint, Batman notices Cap has lured him in, a second too late. The sweep tears his ACL.
The star spangled Avenger stands up and picks up his shield. Only then does he notice Batman's fifth attack, as the tiny gas capsule stuck to his shoulder sprays him in the face.
Batman calls the plane and Bruce Wayne schedules surgery for the morning.

Outcast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think victory for Batman depends on rather or
> not he can trick Cap. From what I've seen the
> fighters use the following methods.
>
> Batman: Relys on stealth, distraction,
> misdirection, and speed using gadgets to limit/
> injure his foe. Often attacking at night when foes
> suffer penalties from fatigue and impaired vision.
> Don't remember seeing Batman in a sustained
> battle. If anyone can trick Cap in Combat Batman
> at least has a chance.
>
> Captain America: A relentless combatant who takes
> the battle to his foe in broad daylight. Able to
> pour it on and KEEP pouring it on. Stronger and
> more durable than a normal human with 1/10
> reaction time. Limited mainly by his use of only 1
> weapon.
>
> In the battle I see Batman trying to use his
> misdirection tactics to create an opening while
> Cap charges in trying to take Batman down as
> quickly as possible. If Cap get close in he could
> probably overwhelm Batman. If Batman can use the
> explosives or somehow catch Cap unexpectedly he
> might be able to take it.


Batman, Captain America, and the shield. Its simply, really...

In a straight out fight, Captain America has the decided advantage, but its close enough that Batman can drag it out long enough to give himself an edge... or lose because of fatigue getting the better of him. When it comes to trickery, you have to think on Batman's level. Planting stuff on the shield, either in close combat or when its thrown, its happened enough that Cap will notice it. The shield's weight and feel are very familiar to Cap, and he'd notice immediately.

I remember a Captain America vs. Bullseye fight... Bullseye, the guy who doesn't miss, was throwing everything but the kitchen sink at Cap and of course every last throw was frustratingly blocked. Bullseye finally got a hit in by throwing a flashlight and a collapsible shovel at the same time. It was dark, so Cap only saw the flashlight and raised his shield for it... and caught the edge of the shovel in his leg.

Batman needs only to suss out Cap's reaction to projectiles, then blind him (take the fight to a darkened area, release smoke bombs, etc). Knowing Batman, he has something in his utility belt that will enable him to compensate for the same blinding condition which will enable him to get a strike in. If he overplays it, however, it won't last as Captain America will attempt to change the environment also (find illumination, move the battle elsewhere), or start listening for projectiles or Batman's approach.

he a all out war situation. A portal or wormhole opens up connecting the worlds of Days of future past, AoA, and house of M. Who would win in all out war. I figure the Sentinals would want to destroy both mutant dominated worlds. House of M would probaly be the best orginized of the worlds being as it wasnt a wasteland like the other two. I figure the surviving heroes of Days, and AoA might team up to try to save thier worlds. The human non mutant characters of M might not trust mutant resistant fighters of AoA and Days fearing that it would mean more of the same if they won. SO with proper manipiulation they could be persuaded to join the Sentinals of days. I could see Doom and his frightful four trying to take control of the Sentinals to use agaisnt Magneto on M.
I think goverment.rulership wise a united mutant army would eventualy defeat the sentinal armies. AoA world i dont think would fair as well against the Days worls as they seemed less orginized, but they might do better vs house of M if high powered mutants from M could be bribed into joining AoA

Another prompted by comicvine:


Lady Shiva

vs


Iron Fist

Steel Cage Match, no holds barred, to the death.

My money's on Shiva. Yes, Danny can use the Iron Fist. Yes, Danny can boost his abilities with his Chi. Yes, Danny likely knows the same Techniques as Shiva does. At the end of the day, no matter how powerful and versatile the iron fist is, Danny still has to connect for it to make a difference. What tips it in Shiva's favor, however, is that its a death match. Shiva lives for death matches. She goes out of her way to find death matches. She probably locked herself and Iron Fist in the cage in the first place. The very fact that Shiva could lose this match is what makes her win it (or, more likely, stalemate it).

Brotherless_one Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Another prompted by comicvine:
>
> Lady Shiva
>
> vs
>
> Iron Fist
>
> Steel Cage Match, no holds barred, to the death.
>
> My money's on Shiva. Yes, Danny can use the Iron Fist. Yes, Danny can boost his abilities with his Chi. Yes, Danny likely knows the same Techniques as Shiva does. At the end of the day, no matter how powerful and versatile the iron fist is, Danny still has to connect for it to make a difference. What tips it in Shiva's favor, however, is that its a death match. Shiva lives for death matches. She goes out of her way to find death matches. She probably locked herself and Iron Fist in the cage in the first place. The very fact that Shiva could lose this match is what makes her win it (or, more likely, stalemate it).


I'd agree. I'd also posit that Shiva knows a few quasi-mystic techniques akin to Chi. She may not employ as flashy or quick mystic martial arts techniques as Danny, but she's no stranger to the concept. And she is one of DC's fiercest and most ruthless warriors, one of very few to make Batman nervous.

Danny is powerful and a skilled fighter, but he's not invincible. Captain America, whose technique Danny described as "basic," got the better of him. Danny's Iron Fist gives him a distinct advantage in combat against brick type fighters who rely on strength/durability more than skill... and Danny has the skill to avoid their strikes while delivering punches that go well beyond what a man of his strength should be able to dish out.

As good as Iron Fist is, he's not the best fighter out there, and Shiva is amongst the best of the best. She would absolutely stay one step ahead of his strikes and wear him out with her weaker damage over time until she finds an opening and moves in for the kill. A better fight would be Lady Shiva vs Shang Chi.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2013 06:00PM by Thrudjelmer.

If Danny was forced into this match I think he could hold his own against her. Lady Shiva had problems fighting Connor Hawke. She is beyond a shadow of a doubt deadly. I think Danny holds back most of the time. Given the chance to cut loose I think Lady Shiva might underestimate him.

Batman grabs the big red, white, and blue star spangled steering wheel strapped to Captain America's arm and turns it clockwise to break Captain America's arm while flinging him to the right, then turns it counter clockwise to break his arm again and fling him to the left.

He then takes his utility belt off, hands it to Cap, and says "let's make this fair."

Dead Sidekick Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Batman grabs the big red, white, and blue star
> spangled steering wheel strapped to Captain
> America's arm and turns it clockwise to break
> Captain America's arm while flinging him to the
> right, then turns it counter clockwise to break
> his arm again and fling him to the left.
>
> He then takes his utility belt off, hands it to
> Cap, and says "let's make this fair."
>
>

Can we please not start this stupid argument again?

Punstarr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Dead Sidekick Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Batman grabs the big red, white, and blue star
> > spangled steering wheel strapped to Captain
> > America's arm and turns it clockwise to break
> > Captain America's arm while flinging him to the
> > right, then turns it counter clockwise to break
> > his arm again and fling him to the left.
> >
> > He then takes his utility belt off, hands it to
> > Cap, and says "let's make this fair."
> >
> >
>
> Can we please not start this stupid argument
> again?

Happy New Year!

As always my money on cap.
The fight between shiva and iron fist would be good. If it is danny later when he does not tire as fast from using fist then i think shiva would be butter on the toast.

The Rancor from Return of the Jedi Vs a T-Rex would be an interesting fight to the death.

geekgirl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Rancor from Return of the Jedi Vs a T-Rex
> would be an interesting fight to the death.


Not sure if I remember this correctly GG, but I think the Rancor in the movie was somewhat smaller than a T-Rex (at least how they were portrayed in Jurassic Park) and had a much smaller mouth to bite with. In it's favor it did have functional arms though. Still I'll go with the T-Rex on this one and say the monster from our home planet would take it.

heres a wacky idea for a fight. Insane madcap vs deadpool.Yeah i think pool would own him.

Outcast Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> geekgirl Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The Rancor from Return of the Jedi Vs a T-Rex
> > would be an interesting fight to the death.
>
>
> Not sure if I remember this correctly GG, but I
> think the Rancor in the movie was somewhat smaller
> than a T-Rex (at least how they were portrayed in
> Jurassic Park) and had a much smaller mouth to
> bite with. In it's favor it did have functional
> arms though. Still I'll go with the T-Rex on this
> one and say the monster from our home planet would
> take it.


yeah I was thinking a rancor was bigger than it was. I looked it up and a rancor is 16ft tall and a t-rex is about 13ft tall but 40ft long. not sure how agile a rancor is or how effective its claws would be on a t-rex

GILGAMESH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> heres a wacky idea for a fight. Insane madcap vs
> deadpool.Yeah i think pool would own him.


Deadpool would absolutely own him, but neither would be able to achieve a definitive win by kill seeing as how they're both unkillable. Basically it would have to come down to which is going to be able to immobilize the other, and Deadpool is the more skilled combatant (by a lot).

Random thought:

Chuck Norris, assuming all of the internet meme hype was true...

vs.

Batman, with all the fanboy-ish stuff about time to plan... and assume he's been planning for a fight with Chuck since he started his crime-fighting career.


GO!

hmm well bats would own chuck his as slick as oil on a winter day on a frozen lake.

chuck...it was chuck Norris that taught ozzy how to bite the head off bats

Thrudjelmer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Random thought:
>
> Chuck Norris, assuming all of the internet meme
> hype was true...
>
> vs.
>
> Batman, with all the fanboy-ish stuff about time
> to plan... and assume he's been planning for a
> fight with Chuck since he started his
> crime-fighting career.
>
>
> GO!

If all the meme hype were true, Galactus would be no match for him.

Incidentally, I hate those memes. >.<

In reality, Norris is like 70 and probably couldn't beat up the workers at the nursing home.

geekgirl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> chuck...it was chuck Norris that taught ozzy how to bite the head off bats


Chuck Norris can scare the bats into biting off their own heads with just a look